WAKE UP – its RISE and SHINE TIME FOLKS

WAKE UP – its RISE and SHINE TIME FOLKS

Wake Up Little Darlings, Wake up

(translation –  the connecting of more dots)

this is a must read link (thanks @Birdseyenews twitter for pointing it out)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/international-center-on-deafness-and-the-arts-to-convene-national-think-tank-on-the-changing-world-of-deaf-education-2011-09-26

this PR Newswire is announcing a special Closed Door National Think Tank to discuss and help to determine the future of Deaf Education

did i mention its behind closed doors – FUN FUN FUN. 

the full-day session on Thursday will bring together a steering committee who will work to identify the challenges in deaf education today, acknowledge some of the vastly different educational methodologies in the area, and begin what is hoped will be a long-term collaboration to develop and advocate for models and funding to appropriately address the differing educational needs of over 37 million children in the United States who are deaf or hard of hearing.

and we r not invited.  who is invited, u ask? well…

Esteemed professionals participating in the think-tank include government representatives from the State of Illinois and the State of Virginia, as well as participants from other state governmental agencies, leaders of relevant NGOs, educators and administrators from the Illinois Public Schools and other public and private schools for the deaf, mental health professionals and medical doctors.

hope they have fun plotting out our future with so very very very few of us at the table

And look no mentioned of bilingualism at all – hmmmmm odd eh.  speech (ie spoken language) and listening are mention many times.  go figure – lets over emphasize what Deaf folks can’t naturally do and under emphasize what they can do successfully and well and package it all as if this is NEW and news worthy.

Oh and check out the conference on Literacy that Clarke School for HEARING and SPEECH is hosting in Oct

http://www.clarkeschools.org/services/annual-mainstream-conference

(thanks for this link S)  See the sponsors?  (yes yes folks i see that NTID and Gallaudet are sponsors but PAY ATTENTION TO THE BIG GUNS TOO see more below) click the program brochure and check out all the folks offering CEU credits (ASHA, RID, AG Bell academy, CT state dept of education), Keynote is president of AG Bell Association (Treni), sessions on Auditory Verbal Therapy (AVT),  habilitation. independence, LSLS certificaiton, oh and ONE on literacy – phew!  ONE as in uno.  They probably had to throw that one in there otherwise the conference title would be false advertising

From that Clarke conference website above u can click Oticon Pediatrics sponsor and see…. TA DA

http://www.oticonusa.com/Oticon/Professionals/Pediatrics.html

Oticon Pediatrics

A “People First” Philosophy for Children

Oticon’s pediatric philosophy reflects our commitment to offering children with hearing loss every opportunity to realize their full potential. By addressing their needs with child-friendly solutions we can lay a solid foundation for learning, which will empower them to communicate freely, interact naturally and participate actively in life. This is what Oticon’s People’s First promise is all about.

Empowering you to meet children’s need

further down it even has a pix


wow did you see those Oticon’s People First promises?  I’ll repeat them here since we r all just beginning to wake up:  “communicate freely, interact naturally and participate actively in life.”

As u can see from Oticon Pediatrics website they are in the business of listening devices and further reading indicates that the promises will be fulfilled via the false propaganda that listening and talking set you free.

Another disturbing thing about the Oticon’s “People First” with a focus on the child is that this kinda sounds like the Conference of Educational Administrators of Schools and Programs for the Deaf (CEASD)’s “Child First” Campaign (see pdf Tucker’s Column at bottom of this blog entry)  The CEASD Child First is about giving the child accessible and equitable environments and language access etc where as the National Think Tank at top, the Clarke “Literacy” conference and the Oticon Pediatrics “People First” are all fixed on the fixing of Deaf children

boo

aint we been there done that?

and aint it odd how they keep stealing our language meaning – ASL is a LANGUAGE

so now they are playing up Oralism (oral / aural ONLY) to be a language when it is a modality and a method hmmm – spin anyone

so now they call it Spoken Language and AVT they now call LSL which kinda looks like ASL eh?

AVT was a bit more honest in name – auditory verbal therapy and Listening and Spoken Language is a bit bogus

whatever they wanna call all this jazz – it is a tune that has been sung and strung out with FAILING results

sure some Deaf folks sing and listen and dance and prance but by and large most of the folks find their way to sign language by the end of the day and say HEY why was i denied this stuff – its mighty handy and dandy

WHY indeed?

cha ching

what’s that i hear? ahhh the sound of a cash register and some CEU points being racked up

Soon maybe ill blog about how some of the latest studies on CI with the wee babies are showing that their brains are NOT working similar to hearing babies – hmmmm.  this is a pickle aint it cuz all the HUGE push is to make them the SAME in the hopes of making them EQUAL (which is the biggest falsehood and the main culprit of oppression – same does NOT equal =.  Not if we hold these truths that all folks were created equal – no matter the color of their skin, if their chromosome be XY or XX, if they love the same sex or not, if they worship a different God or not or none at all, and if they be Deaf or not – they still all be EQUAL)

but what do i know – im just a child of a lesser god, eh?

don’t dismay folks – ASL and Deaf culture are on the rise – they are hitting popular culture and that is what is making all the white coats and companies spin faster.  Once ASL and Deaf culture breakthrough and are accepted and the majority tell the oppressors we think it is ok to be Deaf well then they be in a pickle and they no want that so they gonna keep spinning and falsifying stuff and we keep singing the truth and ….

STANDing UP (not by)

but first….

ya gotta WAKE UP.  I love ya – lets jump at da sun.  We might not reach it but at least we will get off the ground or… u can do nothing or peck at our own – the choice is each and all of ours.

At the very least if folks are in the chastising mood and take on the role of judging who is a good leader, they  could take the lead bu sending a letter or video letter to AG Bell Assoc saying non-profit 501c3 leading organizations should not send  unwanted and offensive membership cards cuz remember the AG Bell and public school caucus Auditory / Oral Manifesto – it is coming for a town and a kiddie near you and it has help from a pal or two or three (see above).

Now you know it’s really true

Waking up is hard to do

tucker’s_column Conference of Educational Adminstrators of Schools and Programs for the Deaf (CEASD)’s “Child First” Campaign

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20 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Tom Willard
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 15:27:22

    Who is the “us” that you think will not be represented at the table? They said there will be people from deaf schools and organizations and such.

    This event is being organized by Dr. Pat Scherer and I never saw her as one of the bad guys. Her Center on Deafness put on an annual international festival for the arts every spring and gave fully paid trips to Chicago to untold numbers of deaf artists of all ages. I was on the advisory board for that event along with Bernard Bragg, Debbie Sonnenstrahl, Chuck Baird and others. She got all the funding to bring everybody there for free for the weekend and honor a top deaf artist each year. I don’t know if the program still goes on but when we toured their new building it was very impressive.

    I read the press release and it makes sense to me .. things have changed a lot in deaf education so let’s get together and talk about things. It seems state-wide (Illinois) and Pat probably picked the people she thought best based on a long career in deaf education. I didn’t get the sense that anyone was being shut out. Also, this is just a planning committee for a national event next spring and I would be surprised if that event was not open to everyone.

  2. Tom Willard
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 15:43:20

    Also, if people are putting on events in the deaf community and need sponsors, they have to go where the money is, and sometimes that is in the audiology/hearing aid world. Companies charge more for their products than it costs to make them and use some of the profits to further their goals. This is something that has been going on since the dawn of time.

    Are there any big strong deaf-centric companies making loads of money and donating profits to set up conferences like, “How Can We Get People To Accept Us As We Are And Leave Us Alone?” I don’t think so. It’s a free country and anyone can set up any conference they want. These people are perfectly within their rights.

    Why aren’t you setting up your own events to push your own agenda instead of just blogging negatively about someone else’s event? It always bugs me when deafies make big stinks about other people’s events, like the AGBAD conferences. Seems they are trying to stifle free speech, and I find that to be un-American. Get out there and tell your own side of the story and let the people decide. Don’t try to win over people’s minds but censoring the opposing views.

    I think the people at Pat’s event will offer a wide range of opinion and hard-nosed realism without getting bogged down in deaf radicalism.

  3. handeyes
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 18:36:01

    tom-

    1. i wrote “so very very very few of us at the table” – we know it is gonna be way shier than 51%

    i could be wrong. id love to be wrong but from my experience – esteemed professionals are usual not people like us and if they are – they may look like it but often they feel bound and brought by the SYSTEM and think they can not stand nor advocate as strongly and as truthfully as they desire so they dont. what i am learning is that they truly can – they just think they cant

    Bell dorm name at NTID being a case in point. STAND for that which is right just and good and it does DELIVER

    2. i didnt say they should not be allowed to meet – i just said wow they pay for a pr wire to announce a few days before their CLOSED DOOR think tank – it doesnt mention BILINGUALISM at all – nor the NAD or CAESD hmmmmm

    3. re: free speech – well, tom i am glad u value and honor it but it is contradictory for u not to honor and value my right to freely express meself also, eh? hmmmmm

    4. re: Deaf radicalism – there is no such thing. However if we r to talk of extremism – I do confess I aim to be an extremist of love in the vein of mr. martin. Its my aim. I wont get there but I shall try

    https://handeyes.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/what-kind-of-extremists-we-will-be-qqq/

    5. I have a question – Why do folks not like us asking questions?

    just strikes me as odd

    6. re: Dr. Pat – this aint about her – its about patterns

    (ya know the 2nd wave one that u seem to be welcoming in cuz u think somehow in the long run Deaf folks r gonna get some kinda financial benefit from it? hmmmm hasnt really materialized yet but the CI CEOs r still sitting pretty and the foundations that r all affiliated with co. that sell wares and solutions for the Deaf problem – they r doing fine

    7. false prophecies for profit sake are not cool

    8. and i know, i know waking up is hard to do

    9. just avert ur eyes if the glare of the truth hurts too much

    10. peace & love,

    Patti

  4. Ella Mae Lentz
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 19:54:35

    Thanks Patti for doing a critical post on this CLOSED DOOR think tank. Tom, Im sorry but anything that stubbornly sticks to using small “d” or “deafness” in their titles or literature reflects their innermost interests is not Deaf people and their achieving true and complete EQUALITY, but their own positions and power — both Deaf and non-Deaf. Tom, I also made a video on Critical vs Independent Thinking. It’s up on http://www.ellasflashlight.com and my youTube account (ASLElla). This post by patti is a fine critical examination of this pr web announcement and the planning behind it and how it’s being framed.

    I realize we do need our own Think Tank or training after attending the NAD NLTC and Im hoping to see it happen within a year.

  5. Dianrez
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 23:39:45

    Reading through the links from the brochure materials, I got the sickening feeling again that would hit me when reading early AGBAD brochures as a child.

    The links talk about how brilliantly deaf people are doing in universities…how overwhelmingly many are living nonsigning lives and talking just fine…the miracle of audition for many children otherwise deprived by a life without hearing…even the distinguished Dr. Ann Geer’s claim that 90 percent of the children with early implants are reading at grade level.

    Oh, show me. What, only two are in university? What, a classroom full of children festooned with wires and devices, hands under the desks, fidgeting until they get one-on-one attention from the teacher who slowly enunciates their input for the hour. What, the 90 percent are children who had hearing to begin with or were actually hard of hearing, and where are the rest? Yes, show me the WHOLE PICTURE. Perhaps they are focusing on a totally different population and calling them “deaf”.

    It takes a lifetime of living without ANY hearing from birth and of associating with similar people to see the other side of oralism. It is a vantage point that few people ever appreciate. So it makes me wonder how professionals involved in promoting those exclusionary methods and closed-door meetings can possibly understand that their good intentions and wonderful perceptions have a missing leg or two.

    Money certainly talks. The (unrelated) good deeds that were done for some d/Deaf people are certainly appreciated. It’s also a tough act to follow when one has nothing but the truth to throw around. Thanks to these Ivory Tower organizations, we must fight to present a realistic and practical frame of reference for the general public. Wish us luck, for we have to do it without money and despite closed-door meetings.

  6. Trackback: Deafhood Discussions » Wake up – It’s rise and shine time, Folks! (People of the Eye, Sept. 27)
  7. Michele Westfall
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 01:18:07

    If they truly invited “deaf schools and organizations”, why not name them? Why are only hearing-centric schools, organizations and people named in the article? Only Steve Weiner was named, and I worry that he will be their Token Deaf and say to him, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yada yada yada” at any Deaf-centric ideas he might contribute.

    Then later when the event is over, if we dare to complain or ask questions, they can say, “Hey we invited Steve Weiner, didn’t we?”

    Maybe we should be sending emails to Steve and pressing him to bring more Deaf-centric folks along…

  8. PopeMistress
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 11:45:41

    Good morning People of the Eye!

    Personally- I think it is VERY UNFAIR that the September 29th think-tank is closed to the public since that we are taxpayers for the Education, Health, Science, NGO and Government Leaders ! Maybe they are trying to steal our money from our pockets, health care insurance premiums, and plus medicare and medicaid from our taxes!

    They professionals + businesses are greedy to label us like we are “disease” or bad behavior for so many years under the audism! I guess that they, the businesses are trying to SCARE so many hearing parents that we are learning how to sign language and very rebel. The BIG TRUTH so many hearing parents do not know that we are trying to cure or RECOVER from our anger in a long run after we finally got out of many years of audism education! (No wonder there are small or shortage of Deaf works for Mental Health!)

    News about oticon was published on Sept 16, 2011 (looking up my calender oh it is more than a week ago)- http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-16/william-demant-s-majority-owner-may-reduce-stake-borsen-reports.html

    after I reading the lists of which are those orgs endorsed BHI (better hearing institute) which may cause me very hard to work on my own critical thinking or independent thinking from that link: http://www.hearingaidtaxcredit.org/endorsers.cfm

    Ella’s vlog (thank you, Ella) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lahVtWDHA6s

    My critical thinking or independent thinking:
    What if any hearing parents want to have hearing aids for the child’s saftey? How can we approch to the hearing parents?

    Do we have a right to say :
    1. “I’m sorry that I m not sure if I could representative for you hearing parents?
    2. Who advise you that the hearing aids will be safe for your Deaf child? ”
    3. I need to know this before purchasing the right kinds of hearing aids because I may disagreed with the hearing aids corp for not being sponsor, not contributing and have not been donating a large huge amound of money on ASL education more than orally education.
    4. Yes I do love to be representative for your Deaf child who may be disire or hungry for ASL to the greedy US Dept of Education? Thank you.”

    Is that ok???

    oh my! I’m so sorry + I realized that my comment is tooo LONG to read!

    Thank you, Patti for your writing the truth blog!

  9. PopeMistress
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 12:08:37

    yup I agreed with Michele Westfall that we should be sending emails to Steve Weiner and pressing him to bring more Deaf-centric folks along! How? I do not have his email address + plus I’m not professional educator but I know that I’m registered voter and taxpayer also? :/ thank you, Michelle Westfall! 🙂

  10. PopeMistress
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 12:17:44

    Patti- alone Steve Weiner ? will that be so hard for him to be STUCK and fall in TRAP with no teamwork if Sept. 29th think tank have no other deaf schools and organizations? that is something I’m concern! Lonely might be very hard to be “independent thinker”????

  11. handeyes
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 12:37:58

    Ella – yep Deaf folks and Allies do need a Think Tank to put forth resolutions re: Deaf education – we dont have to look far or hard – the NAD of old had several resolutions re: Deaf education and many of them are SOLID and totally applicable today

    see https://handeyes.wordpress.com/2010/09/05/veditz-nad-resolutions/

    can the think tank be near Aug 13 in Colorado Springs in honor of the ending of Veditz’s 150 bday and the beginning of his 151th?

    if u want something sooner – im all for that too but would love to see something big out that way after a Festival in his honor
    ————-

    Dianrez – aww u made me all teary eyed. im serious -especially the “Wish us luck, for we have to do it without ….”

    we are armed only two things – THE TRUTH and LOVE

    Hope and faith waiver and falter on me – it is surely slow going and the tsunami is every present and approaching

    it is also lonely so i truly appreciate that u SEE and KNOW. now we gotta do do

    think tank here we come ; )

    thank u for being true blue
    —————–

    Michele – i hope it aint tokenism. tokenISM really chucks. It is odd to me that no NAD rep, no CEASD rep, just RUDE me think. Also from Gallaudet why not Dr. Laurene Simms she knows cha about bilingual-bicultural Deaf education or someone from VL2 to share the latest and greatest data

    if they want innovative and NEW thinking for improving Deaf education – i dont know why it sounds like they r pushing to swing the pendulum back in the direction of the false prophets – dont they know ASL is on its way to being the third most studied language in the U.S.

    ——————-
    Popemistress – yep we need to look at our tax payers money especially in light of the huge PUSH to have medicaid / medicare fully and AUTOMATICALLY cover cochlear implants without assessments on how effective they might be for any given child

    We know from a whistle blower and the Dept of Justice fining of Cochlear Americas (which just had a huge recall of their ci500 range implants) that companies do engage in unethical promoting of their products (kickbacks) and racking up prices once they have a monopoly type deal going and that is not cool to the parents, govt tax dollars and most especially to the KIDS.

    Oticon – thanks for the link – i see they plan to reduce their investment in the “hearing loss” business hmmm

    i get a wee feeling that the market is kinda dropping on all these listening devices and folks r scrambling to get their niche into the early intervention and education systems in order to make it pretty much a “necessity” a “must have” a “do or die” kinda thingy and i get the feeling its not for altruistic or humanitarian reasons – this push.

    the PROFIT margin – the free gov’t coverage – the unethical dealings – the recalls – the injuries and complications – the inconsistent results all seem to indicate something is rotten in denmark and the market is trying to push one or two more times but they are also positioning and preparing to dump their stocks if things stop to yield the big cha chings that they are used to and meanwhile….

    who suffers? parents who were filled with pipe dreams of “normalcy” and “functioning” and the child who has been run here there and everywhere to hear “can you hear me now?” “how about now?” “what about now?”

    and the process is much more invasive than just asking the question

    but what do i know – im just a child of a lesser god

    re: hearing aid tax break

    well i do think the govt should give a tax break on hearing aids if its in the business of fully covering cochlear implants

    hearing aids afford a child a bit more free will. s/he can put them in or take them out as they desire and if they break no harm really done to the child etc

    and i have seen MANY Deaf folks tell me that they got a CI because the high end hearing aids are not covered and very expensive but the CIs are “free”

    wow – see how the industry did that

    so much for options, eh?

    but i believe that u r right – the folks who are pushing for that tax break legislation are most likely the hearing aid manufacturers and then they use all those other organizations endorsements to say – see the Deaf folks want and NEED this govt – dont deny them that

    meanwhile…

    if Deaf folks say we want QUALITY bilingual-bicultural intervention for babies and families folks say RADICALS, EXTREMISTS, CLANNISH, LUDDITES smile

    ahhh – who needs Karl Rove when we have …

    But that tax break bill – i would be inclined to endorse it because otherwise there is no alternative if the SYSTEMS are bearing down on u that u must do something physically to assist your Deaf child and if CI are tooted to be the g-dsend and FREE well, options r limited

    however we must critically examine how most of the “Institutes” have ties to the “INDUSTRY”

    deep pockets they got while ours be empty

    we r only armed with the truth

    re: your questions to parents – it seems to me you are asking them to examine who is BEHIND the hearing aids and i think that is a fair question

    What values or over valuations?
    What industry and profit?
    etc

    I know many folks who love their hearing aids and cochlear implants

    they should not be mandatory nor prohibited but they should be examined and they should be safe, effective, and reliable

    we must always look at the question of why they are needed

    in asking this – there is NO disrespect to the folks who have want and need their listening devices

    there is a question to our society and to ourselves – what is wrong with being Deaf?

    Women do lots of things to alter themselves to fit what society has proscribed as being desirable. Many women resist this and prefer to BE. Just be! That should be fine.

    For me the issues with are with the SYSTEMS and not the individuals and/or parents who choose these things

    with CI there are issues of safety and effectiveness and the coupling of CI with AVT – Oralism and Audism

    with hearing aids and CI are the profit and the push and the false promises

    it also creates a lot of “have a little want more” and dependency

    The folks who use and love their devices are fine. they are GREAT people. The parents who have kids with CI and HA – many of them are super cool – its just a tool. They give their kids ASL and English and this other stuff without all the baggage and trapping

    There is also the not so fine – the PUSHERS of these things as if they are mandatory, life saving, imperative, and a MIRACLE

    the SYSTEMS desire to make it be “us” against “them” (folks who choose for their kids and/or themselves these devices) when really it is and shall always be about:

    Injustice vs. Justice

    it is unjust to promote falsehoods

    it is unjust to push false prophecies for profit sake

    it is unjust to cheat and deceive the government

    it is unjust to deny a child a fully natural and accessible language

    it is unjust to portray being Deaf as being deficient, deviant, and devastating

    it is just to STAND with love and peace and challenge

    it is just to STAND for the truth – that it is dandy to be Deaf and handy to be ASL and grand to have English

    wake up little darlings wake up!

    peace

    patti

  12. handeyes
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 12:57:59

    Popemistress –

    your 2nd comment came in when i was writing my LONG comment to all

    re: letter writing to Dr. Weiner
    the event is TOMORROW

    i dont think its right just good or fair to expect him to gather up people and funds to afford the trip and lodging to crash Pat’s party and i dont think he would do it – smile

    BUT folks could consider writing letters to International Center on Deafness and the Arts (ICODA) Founder and President, Dr. Patricia Scherer, and request that X # of Deaf folks be at the spring event. Tmw’s closed door think tank is to plan for the spring thingy

    You might want to specifically nominate names

    just a thought

    peace

    patti

  13. Don G.
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 21:50:18

    I just went to the Chicago School of Professional Psychology to look for Patricia Scherer’s contact information, and guess what? There is NO such person listed in their website! I even looked for similar-looking names, just in case there was a typo or something. NADA! Hmmm……

  14. Deafa
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 22:25:03

    Don , you probably can find her on ICODA website. But I noticed the emails in chicago school of PP have a pattern so you could try Pscherer@thechicagoschool.edu

  15. Deafa
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 22:29:47

    (Btw, i don’t think the email will work i dont think she work there)

  16. handeyes
    Sep 29, 2011 @ 10:58:10

    Popemistress – alone can make for lonely and can make it difficult to exercise independent and critical thinking. being the only one or one of a very few amongst many who wield power can often make folks conform to unjust situations. sometimes for personal gain, sometime for survival, sometimes as a coping mechanism, sometimes because of the ‘better than nothing’ notion.

    Don – the press release doesn’t say Dr. Patricia Scherer works at the Chicago School of Professional psychology from my read but it does say that Scherer’s ICODA is teaming up with that School.

    Deafa – i think that is why u couldnt find her there.

    Peace,

    Patti

  17. PopeMistress
    Sep 30, 2011 @ 09:23:28

    Conform? never mind- I’ll go look up “define conform” on google.

    uhhh is that waht you mean? http://www.psychologyandsociety.com/conformity.html

    oh by the way. one vlogger did sent “what is independent thinker” link. http://www.asymmetricinvestmentreturns.com/what-is-a-independent-thinker/

    Please pardon me for laughing so hard at someone who is so proud of “independent thinker” as in “marketing” but I do not mean to be offensive because I love that Deaf vlogger’s human being, caring person + sense of humor. oh geez I better tone down on my stalking that vlogger!!!!

    And also I respect a certain person said that “everything we do or say is marketable”. She’s right from her words to me from her FB status.

    Why? I did looked at the hearing aids company owners and ci corps executive chieves are probably took advantage of some or many of us Deaf in the past orally education history year from the US Department of Health and Human Services (from our federal tax) with psychology report.

    I assume that ASHA has hearing aids + ci business sponsors? One (or possible some members) of the ASHA members who also work for US Dept of Health and Human Services???

  18. handeyes
    Sep 30, 2011 @ 12:57:22

    popemistress – im in a rush this morning but a quick reply

    The people of the eye place aint the space for the conformity vs independent thinkers debate cuz it pretty much all is b.s. right now

    i mean – if someone wants to imply that im a conformist because i see merits and values in the concept of Deafhood – i can not bother arguing with them because by jumping on the “independent thinkers” bandwagon we could say they are engaging in conformity

    in a word – it is circular and i got no time for it

    they good folks – dont stalk or bate. challenge will love and truth

    none of the folks engaging in that debate are truly conformists and i would wager almost all of us are non-conformists and i would wager all of us are independent in our thinking

    ya hoo – something in common ; )

    U – Popemistress are very astute and independent in your following the dots that lead to the big bucks

    and we should all know that we r pretty much interdependent

    no wo/man is an island

    much peace

    patti

  19. tomwillard
    Oct 05, 2011 @ 13:06:35

    Have you ever responded to anyone’s comment without this compulsive need to prove that you are right and they are wrong, no matter how many millions of words you have to pound out on your keyboard?

  20. handeyes
    Oct 05, 2011 @ 13:13:32

    yes tom i have

    many times i have actually acknowledged when others have been right here

    i aint always right and i aint always wrong

    much peace

    patti

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