the Wars and the Truth

“Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime” 

Ernest Hemingway

Lots in the news re: the war in Iraq due to the wikileaks documents

The war began in 2003 – u can go to this site for a detailed timeline Yep it will be 8 years in March

there was an earlier wikileak of documents re: the War in Afghanistan (see timeline about this war) Scroll down to 2001 – yep its been 9 years

http://wikileaks.org/

http://wikileaks.org/iraq/diarydig

The logs showed there were more than 109,000 violent deaths between 2004 and the end of 2009.

They included 66,081 civilians, 23,984 people classed as “enemy”, 15,196 members of the Iraqi security forces…, and 3,771 coalition troops.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11612731

that is an AWFUL lot of people – NOTE that disproportionate number of civilians.  This is not cool, folks.

these wars r so abstract to us – so foreign, so far away… most U.S. citizens couldnt even point out Iraq and Afghanistan on a map and yet we have been shooting at these folks for Y E A R S now.

I once saw a retired general of the U.S. army present and he said he stepped down from his post so he could speak out against the war.  He said one of the biggest problems with the wars is that, Americans are making NO personal sacrifices for it.  Families who have loved ones in the military are again and again (as tours of duty are extended etc) but the average Joe, Junita, Lakesha, Maria, and Sam are not.  Our economy has taken a plunge and unemployment is still HIGH but still some how we dont really challenge how much $$$$$ (billions of bucks folks) are being shelled out for these unjust and unwinnable wars.  As a Vietnam vet told me – the U.S. has never won against an enemy that uses guerrilla warfare (as we did against the Red Coats during the American Revolution).

i’m mighty worried about these wars.  Im glad the Iraq war has a time table but the no more combat declaration is a pretty hollow one at present.  I’m glad we have a timetable for getting out of Afghanistan but i am still mighty worried about what we will be leaving behind in our wake.

Quotes i found at http://antiwar.com/quotes.php – picked some of me fav. and a few that just made me head shake and glad for term limits.

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
~Adolph Hitler

In war, truth is the first casualty.

~Aeschylus

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
~Albert Einstein
Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
~Albert Einstein

All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.

~Alexis de Tocqueville

Search for the truth is the noblest occupation of man; its publication is a duty.
~Anne Louise Germaine de Stael

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

~Arthur Schopenhauer

There never was a good war or a bad peace.
~Benjamin Franklin

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~Benjamin Franklin

All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones.
~Benjamin Franklin

Name me an emperor who was ever struck by a cannonball.
~Charles V of France

The politicians in this world… have at their command weapons of mass destruction far more complex than their own thinking processes.
~Charley Reese
The truth is that neither British nor American imperialism was or is idealistic. It has alwa…ys been driven by economic or strategic interests.
~Charley Reese
True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else. 

~Clarence Darrow

When the largest industry in the world is no longer War, I will accept Darwin’s theory of Evolution.
~Dale S. Mugford 

Today the real test of America’s power and wisdom is not our capacity to make war but our capacity to prevent it.
~Dale Turner

You are not going to get peace with millions of armed men. The chariot of peace cannot advance over a road littered with cannon.
~David Lloyd 

War creates peace like hate creates love.
~David L. Wilson

Peace has to be created, in order to be maintained. It will never be achieved by passivity and quietism.
~Dorothy Thompson

Peace…is the product of Faith, Strength, Energy, Will, Sympathy, Justice, Imagination, and the triumph of principle.
~Dorothy Thompson

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower 

We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

How far can you go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?
~Dwight D. Eisenhower 

This world of ours…must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be, instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

War settles nothing.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower
We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

The tragedy of modern war is that the young men die fighting each other–instead of their real enemies back home in the capitals.
~Edward Abbey

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
~Edward Abbey

Our “neoconservatives” are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell.

~Edward Abbey

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.
~Franklin D. Roosevelt

The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful, and virtuous.
~Frederick Douglass

The constitution vests the power of declaring war in Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they shall have deliberated upon the subject and authorized such a measure.
~George Washington

My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth.
~George Washington

Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all.
~George Washington

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
~George Washington

If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator.
~George W. Bush

…the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place.
~George W. Bush

I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we’re really talking about peace.
~George W. Bush

————

NOTE: there are alot more good ones there but i stopped when i got to the last ones here cuz i just was feeling despair at how we got here.

Peace, (and no not George W.’s peace)

Patti

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10 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Don G.
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 02:25:03

    WHOA! Bush Jr. really DID want an imperial presidency!

  2. Karen Mayes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 09:37:01

    *scoff* at Adolf Hitler’s quote…of course, make people believe. Look at what happened with WMD. Yup, about truth being first casualty (Aeschylus.) Hmm, at David L. Wilson’s quote… so one is saying that peace creates war and love creates hate (I say it opposite to make a point); that we need wars to keep a balance in human nature? I say this a bit sarcastically… I am not too keen on duality, but I understand the need for opposites to keep a balance (Taoism.)

    Yeah, yeah, Eisenhower, who ordered Japan to be bombed. George Washington… hmm… he got wise at the end, like Eisenhower all right.

    Wars. I am really tired of wars. We should leave, letting United Nations to take over. Speaking of United Nations, yesterday was United Nations Day and we don’t hear anything about it :-/ We Americans stripped away a lot of power from UN all right, or we won’t be discussing it in media, we don’t find ourselves on the negotiating table with UN, etc. UN is supposedly to help with peacekeeping, taking care of medical needs, making sure POWs are treated equally, etc. We need UN back.

  3. handeyes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 11:51:53

    don – “Plan of Attack” by bob woodward (yep the watergate busting reporter) – if ya read “Plan of Attack” u will be amazed U.S. is still standing after those 8 years of errors

    karen –

    like the quotes u highlight and ur reflections on them

    re: wilson’s quote i think because he uses the word “LIKE” – he is trying to show the irony and ludicrous nature of thinking that war begets peace much as how pro-ponderous it would be to think that hate begets love
    War creates peace like hate creates love.
    ~David L. Wilson

    at least that is me take on it without me first drink of joe this morning

    re: duality and taoism – cool we got a philosopher in the house – very cool. dichotomies usually trip me up but i do at times enjoy trying to figure them out and taoism can be real attractive at times

    ying / yang – pretty much is the fabric of life often

    re: UN – yep it is REAL important – the little ive read about behind the scenes stuff – sad politiks even there.

    I think i saw something on the BBC (me webbrowser is set to open to the BBC homepage) – UN was going to Haitis re: cholera epidemic

    the UN got played a bit when Bush jr admin sent int colin powell with the little vial to threaten humanity

    really sad

    i believe powell is a good man and when all the truths started coming out about the set up etc – resigned in shame and disgust. really i feel he was a very trusted advisor to Bush sr – get iraq out of kuwait but dont invade Iraq. wish that Bush jr, rumsfeld, ashcroft, wolfowitz etc (the hawks) didnt steam roll Powell

    i would have even considered him for president.

    alot of eisenhower’s quotes just wow me. i really respect military folks who can say – “war is not the answer” (re: the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the U.S. – Pres Truman issued those orders – Eisenhower was a general in WW 2 stationed in Europe and was consulted about the plans to use the A-Bombs on Japan – he opposed it:

    “~~~DWIGHT EISENHOWER

    “…in [July] 1945… Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. …the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

    “During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude…”

    – Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380

    In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:

    “…the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

    – Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63

    re: UN – we need it back – YEP. what they done and havent done in Rwanda and Sudan during the genocides – kills me. Saw General Romeo Dallaire (of canada) wow his pain is profound for how tied their hands were. He did some heroic things there
    see Shake Hands with the Devil: The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda

    we need more heroes

    but easy for me to say as a type away and sip coffee

    least i can do is attend the peace rallies a the corner of goodman near the science museum on sundays at noon. those folks have been at it for years now

    oy!

    peace

    patti

  4. Karen Mayes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 11:58:02

    Oh, Truman. I guess I fail in this section of history… who ordered the bombs. Thanks for correcting me.

    I am working on my next blog now… this posting got me thinking… 😉

  5. Sheri A Farinha
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 17:52:04

    Good morning Patti! I love quotes! Here’s a few of my favorites on this subject to share with you:
    “Draft beer, not people.” ~Attributed to Bob Dylan

    “I can not believe that war is the best solution. No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war.” (Eleanor Roosevelt)

    “Women are not at the peace table. We are not there where our commitment to peace, our capacities to find solutions through dialogue, debate, our sensitivities to human needs, human rights are sorely needed. Therefore, we still must press – from the outside…Feminists can make clear that one does not have to agree with the political or economic systems of a country in order to like and understand its people…The feminist movement has a vision. We understand, first of all, that we have but one earth, shared by one humanity. …We will make it a woman’s world, not in the sense of control, or power, or dominance, but those values that we call women-centered values, will be diffused throughout society.” (Margarita Chant Papandreou. Greece/U.S.A.)

    “If you insist upon fighting to protect me, or ‘our’ country, let it be understood, soberly and rationally between us, that you are fighting to gratify a sex Instinct which I cannot share; to procure benefits which I have not shared and probably will not share; but not to gratify my instincts, or protect either myself or my country. For, the outside will say, in fact, as a woman, I have no country. As a woman I want no country. As a woman, my country is the whole world…” (Virginia Woolf (1882 – 1941) England)

    One of my best friends, Coleen Ashley, (daughter of my former mentor, Marcella M. Meyer (now deceased) who founded Greater LA Agency on Deafness – GLAD) was a member of the Peace Movement, and one of the members who organized the Great Peace March back in 1987. I thought it so amazing that she took her daughter with her. They walked from LA to NYC, met Yoko Ono who contributed major $ to the Peace Movement. We moved our wedding date to March that year so she and her family could be part of the wedding. Coleen passed away last year, and memories of her involved with this movement I still carry close to my heart.

  6. finlake
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 17:54:51

    United Nations? Don’t get me started. Now is the wrong time for I’m in the midst of the moving progression. I’ll get back to this later. United Nations, I’ve never been keen with the UN in the first place.

  7. Karen Mayes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 18:55:50

    Hmm… finlake, I admit to not being knowledgeable about UN other than its functions. Guess I’d have to Google it to find why some people like it while others are against it…

  8. handeyes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 21:01:35

    sheri – thanks for the quote and the info re: the peace march
    very important stuff

    finlake – UN is better than no UN. Was glad to see folks walk out when the President of Iran was spewing the conspiracy crap that we attacked ourselves on 9/11 in order to garner favor for Israel – oy!

    best wishes with all ur packing and the B I G move

    karen – let me know what ya think – its interesting that Woodrow Wilson proposed the League of Nations after WW I but the U.S. refused to join it and then bam we got WW 2

    really important to have such a body be it the league or the united nations and to have super powers at the table. i dont know ALOT about it but i suspect that it has done more good than harm and that is a mighty important thing but definitely imperfect

    much peace

    patti

  9. Karen Mayes
    Oct 25, 2010 @ 22:55:10

    Interesting… I do recall that US was determined to be isolated/neutral, like Switzerland.

    What bothers me is that Bush pushed for the deadline from UN and then Bush went ahead with attacking Iraq against UN’s protests. Bush… ugh.

  10. handeyes
    Oct 26, 2010 @ 03:20:28

    yep the bush doctrine – oy!

    peace

    patti

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