Simple Lies – havent we seen this kinda stuff before?

im on a truth campaign

and i abhor falsehoods

and im tired of “simple lies” being spread everywhere to conceal “complex truths”

Note: to folks who have left DR and/or DVTV as b/vloggers – pls feel free to state your reason in the comment section and if i get enuf replies – ill create another post listing those for folks who dont check comments

since im a stickler for the truth and “we are destined to repeat history if we dont study it and if we be studying myths and b.s. and disinformation instead of history, we be getting mighty stuck in the muck”  so yep – u guessed it – got me………

me boots on!

in response to a vlog by bgmaron8 entitled “History of DVTV and Aslrocks.net”  where he proceeds to malign, misrepresent, defame, and accuse Ruthie Jordan and Audism Free America (note: i is a card carrying member of AFA – yes we have cards – and i think Ruthie is rad) – i set out to set the record straight.  Shovel and boots me have handy

FALSEHOOD 1:

Ruthie rules the Deaf vlogsphere and can make folks get up and go with a wink of her wand

FACT 1:

– despite ruthie jordan’s super human powers – she did not launch the walk out at DVTV.  in fact ruthie left DVTV a while after the first group of folks hit the road

if i remember right it was DeafJeff who first declared “adiois, I’m out of here,” aguabo may have been 2nd and Ella third and then a bunch of folks said “yeah, tired of the craziness at this gig” and off they went

there were a variety of reasons and hopefully folks will show up and share theirs.  mine has always been the same ole same ole reason (see below)

Falsehood2: Philantino is just a pawn for Ruthie and AFA to play with

Fact 2:

– Philantino set up ASLrocks of his own accord – sometime after JustDeaf and visual vlogs.  Folks were really enjoying ASLrocks cuz its ASL Deaf focus and it being audism free.  The AFA logo only got added recently and it was because Philantino, being the good bloke that he is, wanted to support Of, By, and For Deaf ASL organizations and groups.  He has personally reached out to various groups to ask if they wanted their logo displayed in ASL rocks!

Ruthie did not hold no gun to his head and to my knowledge has had no contact with Philantino.

Falsehood 3:

It was a happy “it’s a small world after all” before Ruthie and AFA came to DVTV land.

Fact 3:

Deaf vloggers and commentors in DVTV were not all chummy and one big ole happy family BEFORE the dreaded and mighty and powerful and divisive Jordan showed up.  (remember some folks we boycotting DVTV before Ruthie rolled into the joint – remember the bloke who wasn’t there but was here but not really except whenhe was using his kid’s account anxiously awaiting 2.0 block feature.  so there was problems before “audism” was uttered).

Our division may be rooted in an undercurrent of audism (the belief to hear and/or behave as a Hearing person is superior to being Deaf) but it is not because the word or the organization Audism Free America or its signsperson put the term on the table.

big ole FALSEHOOD at 5:55 “audism, the word, and THAT person caused the community to split / become divided.”

Fact 4:

You did state a true fact – “sad story”

yep – i agree with u on that one

S A D

Falsehood 5:

7:14 “deaf extremists”

Fact 5:

Ruthie, nor AFA, nor the folks who walked out fit the definition of extremists

oh lawdy lawdy – AFA is not an extremist group despite Barry Sewell trying to get it listed as one in the wikipedia page on extremist groups.  Even wikipedia knew we were not worthy of such a title and shouldn’t be listed amongst the KKK or the Aryan Nation.

so name calling and labeling be the latest blame game in this “hystery” vlog hmmm

wow

im typeless.  i have seen that term tossed all over the place but usually by the same folks?  Ya know the folks who value others rights to express their opinions and values and beliefs but not ours.

(just FYI i was once on a plane and happened to sit across from a Deaf man i had only met once before – we started chatting and he told me he had visions of setting up a Deaf type of al-qaeda group.  True biz.  Now i know many folks like to paint me red and all that (what with my hair and my perchance to stand UP) but i have NEVER EVER wanted to see a Deaf extremist group (except extremists for love) materialize and i tell ya when this gentleman went to the restroom i was mighty nervous.  i was actually thinking – what is my civic duty here but then he returned and we chatted some more and i saw that he was more hot air than action – THANKFULLY)

but back to the extremely bizarre vlog about AFA and Super ASLie Ruthie Jordan and those “walk out” Deaf extremists –

the bloke in the vlog is now signing “Now Ruthie Jordan threw her dirty hands on us.  Now we are split into two groups simply because of one word “audism.”

hmmm – really

Falsehood 6:

the exodus from DVTV was cuz of Ruthie and AFA and the word “audism” not the system or practice or internalization of audism caused an irreparable rift.

Fact 6:

In fact AFA was late in leaving DVTV – the walk out at DVTV was in the beginning of September 2009.  AFA announced its boycott of DVTV at the end of October.

so i got a few questions:

why is he vlogging all this b.s. now 1 year later????

what prompted this hysteria / hysterics / hystory?

DVTV has been Ruthie and AFA free for quite a long time but still we see some of their own members deriding and belittling DVTV folks – referring to them as children and such.  shouldnt everything be FINE in DVTV now

surely the problems and flare ups in DVTV have nothing to do with the “A” word or the radical ruthie or the active AFA

its been a year folks – or is she and it so powerful we r still causing trouble from afar?

and geez wasnt there some kinda boycott of DR a million moons ago re: adding audism or an equivalent to the guidelines

DR / DVTV has justly identified specific groups that r worthy of protection from harassment –

DR guideline #8

We will not post anything that is an attack on a specific race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orienation, age or religion. This offense is serious and the offending blog will be promptly considered for removal from DeafRead’s subscription.

all ya gotta do is add “disability” and after ethnicity put (this includes ASL Deaf people)

why do it?  cuz we are worth it

from the DVTV R-list

“…targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.”

disability is there but not over in DR – odd, eh?

should add after: ethnicity (this includes ASL Deaf people)

simple done – end of discussion

red – text hmmmm is Ruthie being targeted because of her affiliation with AFA?

the NAD recognizes that audism and linguicism ain’t cool.  it is my hope that some day DR and DVTV will too.

and wasnt there a campaign to get Purple banners of DR and DVTV cuz they were enabling cyberbullying

from the DVTV R list

Cyberstalking is the use of information and communications technology, particularly the Internet, by an individual or group of individuals, to harass another individual, group of individuals, or organization. The behavior includes false accusations, monitoring, the transmission of threats, identity theft, damage to data or equipment, the solicitation of minors for sexual purposes, and gathering information for harassment purposes.

red text – not only did DeafRead and DVTV carry attack b/vlogs against some vloggers and their daughters but the recent vlog attacking Ruthie and AFA is harassing via false accusations

Falsehood 9:

There is no audism in DR or DVTV.  Really?  Really!

Peace,

Patti

good v/blog re: Diseased Tree by Shel

http://www.deafcanadian.com/index.php?s=diseased+tree

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100 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. DE
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 02:57:07

    I am boycotting DVTV and DR because of the intense hatred towards Deaf pioneers- those who dared to think different and bravely.

  2. Shel
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 03:06:56

    I left mainly because of the intense cyberbullying towards those who dared to be different and speak up… cyberbullying in the guise of heterosexism/homophobia, Christianophobia, racism and audism (yes, audism both as in actual audism and dysconscious). The atmosphere there was toxic.

    Patti, you have my permission to add link to my Diseased Tree at DVTV vlog, which would be a good reminder (http://www.deafcanadian.com/index.php?s=diseased+tree)

  3. ASLElla
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 03:15:54

    I agree that bgmaron8’s vlog is full of simple lies and is a constant denial of complex truths. Ruthie and AFA were practically ones of the last to walk out of DVTV. They hung on longer. For me, Jeff Roberts’ message was what triggered me to think more seriously about dealing with the excuse of “neutrality” and refusal to recognize and deal with audism and it resulted in my boycott/departure. Others had their reasons.

    To point at AFA and Ruthie as the “extremist” that are controlling Philanto/ASLRocks is quite ridiculous. But then, I’ve given up on certain people as being rational or able of being on any “truth campaign” like you. I’d rather avoid them and utilize the time I have with folks like you.

  4. Deafchip
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 05:19:34

    I decided to leave DVTV and Deafread due to two main reasons, audism and unhealthy attacks. I talked with Tayler for quite a long time about prevention of attacks and audism. However, to no avail, I decided it was time for me to leave. That is my own decision, my freedom decision to move around wherever I want. I have found places that I feel comfortable with. I don’t appreciate that bgmaron8’s comment made error information. That is a classic example of “ignorant without in depth critical thinking”.

    Deafchip

  5. Karen Mayes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 11:26:48

    Me think you are going overboard a little.

    First of all, I agree with you that Ruthie Gordon DID NOT CAUSE the division… that’s why I asked you to email to the vlogger who made a vlog of his witnessing the history, from his own eyes.

    It is US (you, he, she, they, we, and me…) who are responsible for the division… no need to point anyone here. EVERYONE is unique and individualistic in thinking…

    Remember… it’s all relative. The vlogger was just sharing his experience. He did say at the end of his vlog that he would welcome any correction, any information, etc.

    Peace out.

  6. handeyes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 12:18:15

    hi all
    thanks for your comments and all you do and are. will pull them all together for another post soon.
    shel have added the link above – that is a great v/blog entry and i thank u for reminding me of it.

    Karen –
    re: my going overboard – as in EXTREME – wow that is so weird how u r singing other folks rights to assert their “relatives” but when i shout out mine u bring judgment and ill advice based on faulty reasoning.

    re: ur truth of “no need to point anyone here” re: causing the division – Girl did u read my blog? did u watch bgmaron8 vlogs? he is a pointing the finger DIRECTLY at “Ruthie Jordan” (he even subtitled her name several times) and you called his vlog a “good one” and “food for thought” and worthy of dissemenating via ur FB page.

    so if u r a champion of independent, individualistic opinions and thinking – shouldnt u be saying “you go girl. let is shine” to me too. dont i deserve a little love?

    bgmaron8 was not sharing his experience at all – he was proclaming FALSEHOODS to be FACTS and that ain’t cool. He was attacking ruthie and AFA – that ain’t cool. Most kids learn that from their teachers pretty early on.

    Opinions should be stated as such. Facts should be stated as such. and simple lies should not be dressed up to be “history” when they are so riddled with FALSEHOODS they are laughable. seriously when i first watched his vlog i was like “who could possibly believe any single person or use of a single “word” could be so powerful as to get us all to jump up and head for the hills”

    not to mention the FACT that Ruthie and AFA left DVTV way after the walkout and and and many of the folks who left DVTV havent even joined ASL ROCKS so bgmaron8’s whole wittle conspiracy crap is exactly that

    im a muckraker lately me friend. im kinda doing it cuz i love u and care about u and u ought to know the $hit ur sink urself into

    Im mighty glad he is open to corrections – as he has got a ton of editing to do.

    But no worries – got me boots on

    Peace in ; )

    Patti

  7. Karen Mayes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 13:00:55

    🙂 I like your “peace in”, as opposed to “peace out”.

    I did read your blog and I do disagree with you on some points… But that’s OK, it is what we are here for, right? Independent thinking.

    And I DID SAY that Ruthie DID NOT CAUSE any divisions. I SAID that WE (you, me, everyone) were responsible for the division. 😉 That’s why I asked you to alert bgmaron of the fact.

    Peace in.

  8. Karen Mayes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 13:08:26

    One more thing… I never bought the conspiracy theory and I never will, just to clarify where I stand.

  9. finlake
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 14:20:23

    Hmm, for what it is worth, I’ve never been a member of DVTV and I never wanted to. You know how it goes “First impression is everything.” So, I did not get a good impression of DVTV when I ‘stumbled’ into it. -shrugs-

    However, I did detect a “mudslinging” ‘tude on bgmaron8’s part, but I dismiss his reflection for he’s barking up the wrong tree, IMHO.

  10. ASCDEAF
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 14:24:00

    Alternative Solutions Center (ASC) left DVTV and DeafRead because Tayler Mayer and Jared Evans were not very responsive when we shared our concerns about cyberbullying. They asked us to ignore the problem. We can’t ignore cyberbullying.

    DeafRead/DVTV editors:

    1. Direct online traffic to b/vlogsites where children are attacked or used as pawns to get back at adults
    2. Publish links to b/vlogs that make threats to people’s employment
    3. Refuse to take corrective action by removing certain links after their inappropriate content is brought to their attention, even when they DO have the ability to remove these links

    ASC does NOT condone any of the above-mentioned practices. We feel it is the right thing to leave DVTV and DeafRead to show that we disapprove cyberbullying.

  11. Candy
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 17:04:39

    I do not vlog and at the time of all the above mentioned fiasco, I heard about it via other blogs. So my recollection is probably not significant. However, speaking of contacting employers. A vlogger contacted mine. And did ACS or any of u raised objections? nope. not a one. what I am constantly seeing are gross hypocriscy among the majority of v/bloggers. I have said over times in various places that it is not cool. We know who the individuals are. In fact, Barb Digi and I were victims of the same vlogger who contacted our employer. Think about that. Cyberbullying techinally is recognized by the courts as bulling occurring online by kids. Just sayin’

  12. bgmaron8
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 19:48:21

    My vlog at DVTV tell a whole truth about AFA . Last week, I saw a clip of Philatino who own the AslRocks.net. called Tayler Mayer ” audist” . Where did Philatino learned that words from? Of course, AFA and all those deaf extremists . You all are full of craps period.

  13. Shel
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 20:45:59

    bgmaron8,

    Note: audism isn’t the only reason that people left. I noticed you said nothing about cyberbullying in the form of homophobia/heterosexism, Christianophobia or racism. Yet you focus on issues related to audism which you REFUSE to recognize.

    AFA did not create the term “audism”. You call us “deaf extremists.” Hmmmm. Seems to me that someone has not been doing his homework.

    The term audism has been accepted by respectable Canadian organizations which would NOT tolerate audist comments or audist behaviour. See my v/blog, and read, then click on the link to the Canadian Hearing Society website where you will find definition for audism/ableism and how it applies to Human Rights legislative bills and laws.

    http://www.deafcanadian.com/2010/03/14/the-canadian-definition-for-audism/

    Is it only “extremists” that accept the term audism? If you say “YES”, Bgmaron8, then you would be calling those respectable organizations “extremists” though they serve ALL Deaf, Hard of Hearing, Deafened individuals.

    Shel

  14. Scotcaz22
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 21:32:21

    I was a vlogger at DVTV for nearly a year before I walked out. I stayed on even after many people walked out or left DVTV for various reasons. It was only after I saw how the owner of DVTV dealt with the complaints and banning certain vloggers who didn’t deserve to be banned when he should have not banned other vloggers, and how he favoured some people (who did deversve to be banned) over other people that I decided to leave.

  15. handeyes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 23:07:08

    Hi Candy – Im sorry you had someone contact your employer – to learn that this person also contact Barb DiGi’s employer – hmmm. I hope someone will name this person as its someone to watch out for.

    Definitely NOT COOL.

    If I had known about it – i would definitely do a shout out. I aim to stand on the side of justice and truth. When i saw a cruel comment attacking ur family in a Hearing blog – i notified the owner ASAP and requested the comments be removed. I trust u would do the same for me.

    Re: Cyberbullying – that is the TERM with definition that DVTV has up in their R-list. Why are they using a term that only applies to children? no idea but since it is their rule – I cite it in an effort to illuminate and speak their own language.

    Cyber / Internet defamation and / or harassment is probably more accurate.

    peace

    patti

  16. handeyes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 23:15:27

    bmaron8 –

    this is what you wrote under my youtube vlog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_gQChd-nkk reply to your video where i put in ASL the info from this blog entry etc:
    “I left this text message for you. I chose NOT to click my mouse to watch you. You are one of “those” extremist I already saw your other vlogs .

    no thank.”

    Maybe next time you say you are open to corrections you can be clearer that you are not really OPEN at all.

    From your comment above in this thread – it seems you do not care that your vlog is riddled with errors and falsehoods. PL calling tayler an “audist” i dont support. why did he call him an “audist” ??? Is he declaring it as a historical fact – did he list him in a Wikipedia page as an audist? And your comment that “where did PL learn the word audist from???? From AFA???

    1 whole year after the walk out?

    Seriously this is so incredibly interesting. Things must be real bad over in DVTV that u pulled this red herring out of the closest – falsehoods and all. really desperate looking

    [NOTE added 9/24 : Philantino in a video comment under Ruthie Jordan’s vlog re: the accusations stated that he never called Tayler an audist and asked for evidence of such. To my knowledge none has been put forth – such is the pattern of the b.s. makers – to spread the manure without any proof of the b.s. the speak – simple lies to conceal the complex truth that DR and DVTV does avert its eyes to audism and cyberbullying / harassment.)

    Just FYI – there is only one person that AFA has ever referred to as an audist and many many many other historians have verified this man’s audist thinking and actions via his own writings and life work so its not a word that AFA tosses around regularly.

    Re: u calling me an “extremist” well that is me aim – to be an extremist of love (see the MLK https://handeyes.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/what-kind-of-extremists-we-will-be-qqq/)

    i aint even close but its my new year’s ambition

    me off to yoga now

    peace
    patti

  17. handeyes
    Sep 21, 2010 @ 23:19:31

    to the other folks who have shared ur reasons for leaving DVTV / DR – thanks
    ill put them all together in a new post soon

    thank u for making the “invisible visible” and stamping out ignorance with truth

    peace

    patti

  18. PopeMistress
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 00:26:01

    eh??? what??? did you see this twisted monk’s video comment link: http://seesmic.tv//videos/3dpo1ALkBG

  19. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 01:03:01

    I’m apologize profusely to be a bit opinionated this, but bgmaron8’s not known to be bright or possessing common sense. So I would dismiss his statements for it carries no weight at all.

  20. SweetMind
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 01:31:10

    Gasp! He is total twisted everything. Mind you, Bgmaron I never joined DVTV since I left DeafRead because of bullying, coward, oppression, full of audist and dysconsicous audist like yours. I aint no Deaf extremist because I m fighting for our Deaf babies/children s right to be protected from a very abusive harm toward those Deaf humanity especially Deaf babies/children by NeoNazism, Medical, and AGBell if you mind. Thanks!

    Ruthie Jordan didnt do anything like what you get the wrong idea. I feel sorry for you.. I hope you ll realize it someday.. Dont jump the conclusion like the rest of audist people who thinks they know it all about our being deaf. How nice lies they did to us and many people in this society that I dont have any respect for them at all..

    Thanks, Patti to bring this up.

  21. handeyes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 02:18:58

    awighty – the last three commenters – i do thank ya for stopping by

    i aint comfortable with the name calling or judging – twisted monk, not known to be bright or possessing common sense, “audist” here and “audist” there…

    i aim for us to stand strong and firm with love and truths

    soul force / truth force all the way so instead of tossing mud back at folks – why dont we just stick to pointing out the errors in their statements

    then the truth can do the rest of the work

    We ain’t sinking in the muck folks – we pulling on our boots and just moving the muck into the sunlight so others can see and KNOW and then it will dry all out or make itself useful by doing the right thing.

    Choice / option

    Direct peaceful confrontation all da way folks.

    don’t become what we abhor

    love, love, love

    peace

    patti

  22. PopeMistress
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 02:39:46

    GASP!!! oh for haven sake my bad, I confess for calling him “twisted monk” but but but of course must I take or apathy worship his words by reframing ??? Good night + sleep tight, dear!!!

  23. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 04:37:53

    Ok, then why are we paying attention to bgmaron8 in this particular blog?

    I really don’t care for what he has to say, considering I was not initially impressed by him since his particular personal vendetta against ASLnikki with a serious defective logistical thinking a while back. Therefore, I’ve come to a conclusion I would not be surprised he would make a vlog narrating an inaccurate historical incidents which would irk the people who left DVTV who happens to know the truth. I simply ignored his “history” vlog when I first saw it.

    However, it’s merely my opinion and this is your blog. You can do whatever you want. You’re the goddess here, and I’m a mere mortal.

  24. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 11:52:20

    I had time to mull over this, trying to look back last year. To be honest, I did not exactly follow the series that happened last year; due to my priorities being different, meaning I spent less time on computer last year.

    Hmm…I know for fact that everyone has his/her own perspective on history. You’d find many historians rewriting what happened in the past… again and again, as we all learned that in college. “Yes, this is what happened…” “no, that’s not how it happened; what really happened is…” “no no, you are wrong, what really happened… ” So it’s somewhat easy for us to start questioning ourselves on how and what really happened. Truth is ALWAYS relative, whether we like it or not. You have your own brand of truth, I have my own brand of truth, etc… some would call your brand of truth as a lie, some would view my brand of truth as a lie…

    I am trying to remember what happened… remember it’s just my version of DVTV’s walkout. I believe that it happened over the disagreement over whether audism should be put on R-list or not, and I admit that I was against it to be put on R-list (hey, I am being honest…) because I felt that it still needed to be defined, redefined, re-redefined, to make sure there’d be no room for any error, to reduce any possibility of being quick to use the word against anyone out of personal vendettas and to protect DVTV from any potential lawsuits. I don’t really remember any “drama” except for strong disagreements which got a bit personal. Hmm… My main impression is that the walkouts occurred over the objection over Tayler’s decision not to put audism on R-list and that some felt Tayler overlooked harassment a lot.

    But, I hate to say this… youtube has a LOT of harassment, lots of ‘ism’s, etc… But then that’s an entirely different story, having nothing to do with DVTV and DeafRead.

    Well, positive outcome is that ASLRocks.net was born 😉

    I am copying and pasting my comment on Tayler’s posting as well.

  25. handeyes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 13:15:07

    h-eye folks

    pope mistress – i aint advocating for apathy or for worship but rather truth and love – we gotta strike that balance in the middle between apathy and adoration me think

    finlake – me goddess of this blog not really but i do speak me mind
    re: “ignore” well that is apathy and not really a good option in me book. i do exercise alot of “to each their own” when folks clearly are expressing their opinions or when their information is just so incredibly bonky any one would realize its falsehoods. but when folks send letters riddled with false accusations to CA dept of justice or DVDs to CA senators that involves their own copyright infringement and twisting or make vlogs entitled “history of….” when it is so far off the mark of “history…” and is really AIMED at generating “hysteria” – i would be negligent not to say anything

    bgmaron8 vlog and tayler’s subsequent support and affirming of it and attacking are very important EVIDENCE

    if no one calls them on it – several things happen:
    1. many folks believe it cuz no one said otherwise
    2. some folks get frustrated and annoyed and start name calling, slandering, libeling, and defaming back
    3. more myths and lies get generated on both sides
    4. MANY FOLKS GO SILENT

    to me this is the biggest ill-effect of the falseHOODS – it is born out of fear and generates more fear

    when we come from fear (either by inaction or re-action) the results are the opposite of love

    if we can look within and generate love and stand firm with peaceful direct confrontation then the truth can come forth and we be part of the soul force / truth force – extremist for love and all that jazz

    its a good thing

    “won’t you help me sing these songs of freeom, its I’ll ever have…..” bob m

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Burke)

    now “evil” here is pretty relative – “-isms” that are based on prejudices and are intended to diminish others are not cool and while they may manifest themselves in very minor ways in the blogsphere – they should not be overlooked because when we avert our eyes – they grow and fester and multiply.

    Karen –
    there are some fundamental truths that humanity agrees on
    there are some facts that have been proven and are indisputable

    what humans decide to do with this facts and truths is always an interesting thing to behold

    we can stand on the side of injustice or justice or we can stand on the sidelines and watch

    re: why the walk out at dvtv

    re: “audism” in the guideline –
    i had been very clear that i understood that the term “audism” itself was new and that if he felt just saying Deaf ASL people or a cultural or linguistic groups to the guideline would be achieve the same purpose – that was agreeable

    i had received 2 written assurances from Tayler last year that he would be putting “audism” or an equivalent and “disability” it in the guidelines at DR and DVTV (right now “disability” is only in DVTV)

    on

    july 1, 2009 Tayler wrote:
    “i have a lot of things going on and am juggling them all! 🙂 i’ll add audism in the guidelines — try to do this today!!! yay!!!”

    but then he never did and never replied to any of my inquiries as to if he changed his mind etc.

    DVTV walkout began 2nd week of Sept

    Tayler vlogged about how no one had ever complained to him audism – i email him we have a VP chat. We discuss how the word “audism” is unclear and he says he will be adding the word “disability” to DR guidelines and CULTURE to both the DR and DVTV guidelines –

    Oct 3rd he wrote: “need to sit down and revise both guidelines this week. thanks patti”

    That was almost 1 year ago

    these are facts and thus truths

    i received NOTHING from tayler telling me he had changed his mind. everything else that has come to me has been via his blogging in Y3 and vlogging. He has launched several attacks against me and i understand why.
    I have put him in a very hard position. I do have sadness for that.

    I am asking him to do the right thing for the right reasons.

    many people have speculated as to why Tayler is not living up to his own words and his own conscience. Different theories abound. I suspect that maybe in a long ago past communication or two or three Tayler may have said some things he wish he hadn’t and some folks are holding that over his head – saying if u yield and change the guidelines we will share what you said about “them.” I could be completely wrong. I could be a completely poor judge of human character. It could be that Tayler is not the good man that i believe him to be. The evidence thus far seems to indicate in fact that he is not a man of his word or a man of principles. (my eyes are tearing up right now as i type this. i do not want to believe this. i really do love this guy. i really do. i didnt like folks dissing him for being a correspondent for the NAD conference – i actually liked and appreciated what he had to share. i do not like that he and i are in conflict. i do not like having to advocate for his sponsor to pull their banners from his sites. i do not like seeing him spread more lies and falsehoods. I do not believe that is really who he is. and the day i must come to terms with the fact that i have been wrong will be the day u will find me crying long and hard as i am a bit doing right now – i really dont want to believe that Tayler is not a man of his word and does not love Deaf folks who subscribe to a “disability” view point and Deaf folks who subscribe to a “cultural / linguistic” view point enough to ensure they are included in his guidelines)

    for today im gonna keep my faith in Tayler and the human editors at DR
    that they will believe in the value of adding “disability” and “culture” to the guidelines

    it will not be a win for me. believe me all my advocacy that is this hard and heart wrenching always results in positive change but shatters me a bit. costs me a bit that it is so BLOODY hard.

    i do not like to see how hard folks protect injustice for WHATEVER reason – pride, superego, id, blackmail, fear, vengeance, ignorance, stupidity, etc

    i believe DR and DVTV are IMPORTANT social tools and have GREAT potential

    and are worth fighting for

    Enforcing all of the guidelines in DR and DVTV are very hard – measuring and judging when someone is attacking based on: race, age, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc is VERY difficult to do

    my point has always been that since DR / DVTV justly values those identified / specified groups and since DR / DVTV serves Deaf folks (those who see themselves as a disability, those who see themselves as a cultural / linguistic entity, and those who see themselves as both) – it should add “disability” in DR and “culture” to both DR / DVTV

    in other correspondence in the past i have suggested “ethnicity” (including Deaf ASL people)

    because currently several scholars are advocating for Deaf ASL people to be recognized as an ethnicity. before he and i had agreed to “Culture” largely because Deaf Culture is generally recognized

    in a word im pretty flexible as to how but some type of acknowledgment (of “disability” and “culture” is warranted in the guidelines

    cuz…. we r worth it

    “spiritual audacity to assert our somebodyness” and all that jazz

    also – i want Deaf aggregators and video sites to be at the forefront of helping us navigate this new terrain of helping us define and establish what is and what is not

    to know that a few rogue nutters are gonna cry “audism” for anything that moves yes! they probably will and they will need to be challenged and educated so they understand;
    – blogging about a CI is not the same as blogging about how having a CI makes you superior to Deaf folks

    i believe that tayler is right – that there is not a flood of audist v/blogging in DR and DVTV so that should really make his and the human editors job very easy. they will not have a hard time enforcing this guideline

    just as there is not a flood of v/blogging in DR / DVTV re: attacking someone based on AGE – but there has been and it has been useful to have the guidelines to say – nope none of that here.

    it is positive that ASLrocks.net has made a formal commitment to being Audism Free. The best we can do is jump at da sun – we may never reach it but at least we will be off the ground.

    for any aggregator or video website – it is gonna be thorny – its gonna be tricky for us to figure out what is an attack based on someones age, race, ethnicity, religion, DISABILITY, CULTURE, etc but we will say – they are important too and we will tackle that thorny place and figure this out together

    thanks again to all of u who are stopping by to comment or just to view –
    “i see you”

    much peace

    patti

  26. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 13:39:44

    Patti,

    Your last comment is heartfelt…

    I “see” you.

    Take care.

  27. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 13:53:13

    Hmm, per se, the truth is “relative.” However, I’d like to enunciate the truth has a way of coming out one way or another. Hence, my ‘tude on ignoring the said person.

    Yet, I agree with Karen Mayes, I See You.

    What the heck? Are we going by ways of the culture of Avatar blue skinned people? 🙂

  28. Candy
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 15:20:19

    Patti..

    It was out there clear for everyone to see. How could you miss that? Ridor and Carl asked everyone to boycott my presentation, so they send a letter to the person in charge of the conference, hence my employer and since there was a veiled threat, law enforcement had to be consulted. Of course, I had to share it with my boss because internal law enforcement of my agency would have notified my boss per protocol. Patti, you could not have missed it. Carl and Ridor got at least three other people to send emails to my employer, and you want to know their names? haha you’d be surprised who they are. End result is that my agency and my boss thinks this whole thing is stupid. I have every F*cking right to blog during my free time about any F*cking thing I want. So, you see, I see so much hypocrite shit here that, nothing fazes me anymore. At least I know I aint no hypocrite. people who send me email telling me the don’t approve of it but don’t tell their friend that it’s not cool is a hypocrite. A f*cking hypocrite. And, ya’ll know who you are. You are the ones that are friends with these people. If one of them was my friend, and they did some sort of shit like that, you bet your ass, I would tell him what I think and if this person don’t take it seriously, I’d go out public and denounce what he/she did. The rest of the people that send letters to my employ was Nikki and Aquabo. And, there was one other individual, probably some lame assed follower who don’t have a mind of his own. Yup, just FIVE emails. So, tell me what kind of an image did the deaf community place on my agency? We, us who are already there had to convince them that not all deaf people are like that, just the few extremists. that’s all. We are trying to get our agency to hire more deaf people. hahaha And, after what Carl and Ridor did? Wow, they really made a bad impression. For one, there was NOTHING in my blog that showed my disrespect for MY deaf community. The one that I grew up in since I was born. There is something wrong with this community when it turns on its own.

    Finlake, you said:

    but bgmaron8′s not known to be bright or possessing common sense. So I would dismiss his statements for it carries no weight at all.

    really? Well, that is in the eye of the beholder, I presume. He might not have great English but that don’t make him “un bright” or “lacking common sense”.

    You weren’t around, so you shouldn’t say anything of the sort. and, any information you got is probably biased. BgMaron8 was there, you weren’t and just because you’re friends of Ridor, and Ridor hates him, ergo you had to throw that cheap shot at Bgmaron8? Does that get you points with Ridor? People can’t think for themselves. Geesh!

    I’m done here and I’m done with all of this stupid crap. Mostly I’m done with hypocrites of this world. They suck. yuk yuk.

    as Karen says…

    Ta da

  29. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 15:31:00

    Uh, i just simply did not agree with bgmaron8’s logistical point of view and i did felt dumbfounded on how he came to conclusion on several vlogs of his. so i never felt he saw it more thoroughly. i was watching dvtv when that mess came about back in the fall, but i wasn’t quite up to the par (as in daily basis) during the walk-outs. btw, my friendship with ridor has no bearings on my perspective of bgmaron8’s vlogs.

    well, candy, for what it is worth, my shot at bgmaron8 was on my own judgement call (as in i thought for myself).

  30. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 15:38:10

    My friendship with Ridor did not impeded me from liking you for who you are, Candy.

  31. Candy
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 15:46:25

    Well, I personally think that true friends would have the guts to tell their friend if what they did was wrong. I think it is time that we all confront people when they do shit to others. Karen Mayes have had to put up shit with that guy and yes i told that guy to Fk off. Did anyone? nope.

    My perception of what Bgmaron8 said is pretty much what happened. What others said, pretty much happen too in their perceptions. I think that the bottom line here is people need to stop taking sides and start looking at the issue at hand.

    What really got me going here was hypocrisy of many people, especially when Patti is like, oh?? I didn’t know it happen, when she knows it happened. It was right in front of everyone’s face, that is, if they were watching Carl’s and Ridor’s vlog. if anything, hypocrisy of people, I cannot put up. I hate liars and I hate hypocrites and these two will get me going. oh yeah. So, If I have offended you finlake, I’m sorry. Only time will heal my perception of all this stupid crap.

    That’s it.

    i’m out of here….

    ta da

  32. spiritualwing64
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 16:05:32

    Hello Patti, this is my first time to leave the silly comment under your blog. =0)

    Bgmaron, you stated: “My vlog at DVTV tell a whole truth about AFA . Last week, I saw a clip of Philatino who own the AslRocks.net. called Tayler Mayer ” audist” . Where did Philatino learned that words from? Of course, AFA and all those deaf extremists . You all are full of craps period.”

    Did I left deafvideo.tv because of AFA? (((Scoff laughing))).

    Life is short, you seem to focus only on the most negativism aspects of humanity. You mold yourself to be Barry Sewell. Our Deafhood movement seeks to be a fun, positive, intelligent gathering for discussion and reflection of values can help address issues and begin to solve problems by bringing people together rather than you and other members. An opportunity for deaf people from all different kind of cultures in life bring and share their opinions in order to gain perspectives, better understand each other and how people can work together for next deaf babies’ generation. We truly gain old & new friendships not because of AFA or Deafhood or whatever you put yourself to blame any person or organizations.

    You truly want us or other to be easily manipulated or controlled by you and other members. We shouldn’t let you or people’s opinions of us control our actions and behaviors. Otherwise, you truly do not have any facts but some of us do have facts from the real source which causes us to divide which it is true. All I am saying people can have two choices to join Deafhood or not. This Deafhood, AFA, or any organizations truly does not divide us.

    One more thing, why are you whining over Aslrock owner talked about Tayler? Being audist isn’t bad person. Is that simple? LOL

    Have a great day!

  33. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 16:39:17

    Yeah, I remember Candy standing up for me and I appreciate it. Yeah, even to this day, I have no clue why the vlogger has such hostility toward me, but I really don’t care anymore, because I know I did nothing wrong except for speaking up my own mind.

    Hmmm…I don’t know what to say, but I want to give everyone a benefit of doubt. They all have their own minds and I like knowing them, even we might not always agree.

    It’s sad to see distrust and suspicion going on, and I am NOT immune to it either. Even when I get together with other bloggers/vloggers, I will always have a very tiny wondering, suspicious monkey in the back of my head, all because I have my own opinions which fail to mesh with other people’s opinions. So I just stick it out and just LISTEN to their sides… but it does not mean that I will “convert” to other side, nor I expect them to “convert” to my side… whatever the sides are, anyway.

    All right…

    Ta da. *waving fingers*

  34. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 17:37:05

    Candy, I’ve always been under the impression the harassment to the workplace of “controversial” v/bloggers may have been the catalyst to the people leaving dvtv, as well as the audism thing. However, I did say I only went to DVTV sporadically. And no, I do not condone the harassment to a v/blogger’s workplace because of stupid disagreement. I’m pretty sure you reckon I have said that was a stupid thing to do. Not so bright, either.

    And no, I’m not offended, Candy. More of surprise. Does that stop me from liking you? Nope. 🙂

  35. spiritualwing64
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 17:37:56

    Karen Mayes,

    Why don’t we want to bring things like that into the open? Are we afraid of what people will think? Are we afraid of being rejected, misunderstood, or unloved by those we care about or that they might have a different opinion of us?

    There’s something about verbalizing it to another person that does wonders for us—but use wisdom. Choose someone you know you can trust. Also, don’t go on a digging expedition, trying to dig up old hurts and offenses that already have been buried and forgotten. Even though our problems may have been brought upon us because of something done against our will, they have no excuses for allowing the problem to persist, grow and even take control over our entire life. Their past experiences may have made them the way they are, but we don’t have to “stay” that way. Their prides cause people to ignore warnings; they think they won’t be the ones to get caught. Their prideful attituded have damaged our deaf communities. We must choose to separate ourselves from those people who could poison our minds. Temptation, or giving in to temptation, has been a serious problem since the beginning of deafvideo.tv and is still a very real part of our lives today. Like it or not, we all have to deal with it. Facing temptations will either bring out the best or worst in us.

    Finally, we must assume some personal responsibilities. Some people are trapped in denial, afraid of what might happen if others find out the truth. But as long as they deny the past, they’re never going to be free from the truth.

    I guess that is all I have to say so have a great day!

  36. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 17:53:52

    Spiritualwings64…

    Truth is relative. It means that you see truth differently from the way I see truth. As for history, we have different perspectives… right or wrong? Neither. I pick my own battles, I pick my own friends, etc… all that you know nothing about. I’d advise against assuming so I won’t say anymore, because I don’t know you at all.

    Take care.

  37. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 17:57:57

    I concur with Karen on the truth. Its never absolute.

  38. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 18:08:47

    *nod* @ finlake.

    Patti, thanks for sharing your version of truth. I did see Tayler’s version of truth as well. Hm. I don’t know what to say, but I hope both of you will work it out… since both of you already stated that you both respected and liked each other 🙂

    hugs.

  39. spiritualwing64
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 19:34:28

    Karen,

    Dread is a close relative of fear and truth, and allowing it to remain in your mind sets up from the real source of truth. Dread is a trap, and wemust be determined not to fall into it. We have wonderful things on the inside of us, and no matter what’s going on around us. We can find strength right there inside of us to do what we need to do. I’ve learned that life is so much better when we don’t have unrealistic expectations—for ourselves or other people.

    Do I care about relative? No, I truly do not care about right or wrong. All I cares about the truth facts instead of blame at someone for no reason. You can pick your own friends which I do not care about this. All I truly cares about our deaf communities. Thank you for sharing with me. =0)

  40. handeyes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 21:54:02

    Candy –
    Thank you for sharing your experiences. I can see your anger. It is NOT right for folks to be unjustly attacked or reported at their workplace .

    I will be honest with you that i did not know about these letters. I will be honest with you that i have in the past told folks via emails, vp, or ichat when i do not condone stuff. I have tried to be more public in my disagreement of folks actions since i began my truth campaign because you are right – to be selective in what we speak out against and to be silent against other cases of defamation etc is not right or just or cool.

    I do not support or condone Ridor and Carl’s attacking of people. I have made this very well known to them both and to other people.
    If Deafread carried those attacks i would do a shout out. In ASLrocks i have emailed the owner / operator when attacks were launched against Jason then against Ridor but i am not a daily visitor anywhere so i miss lots of stuff.

    we each should do shout outs when folks cross lines from simply expressing opinions (w or w/o colorful language) and when they spread falseHOODS with the intention to harm.

    You wrote: “There is something wrong with this community when it turns on its own.”

    There is a famous painting by Goya called “Saturn Devouring his son” – it is horrific but it is the image that comes to my mind often when i see us hurting each other in the blogsphere.

    I have long hoped and called for us to remember the “better angels of our nature”

    I have not always followed this call so well myself.

    Presently with us just having passed through the Days of Awe and this recent attack against AFA and Ruthie – i am asking myself more and more what have i done and what can i do? What didnt i do and what should i do?

    And like you – sometimes i conclude “I’m done here” – Ta Ta seems more fitting than Ta Da but… – other times i conclude – there are some truths that must be told, some facts that must be spoken, some issuing out of a firmness with love and so i keep trying

    but it does get mighty tiring and sometimes mighty discouraging

    re: what we would do for our friends – i believe we would tell them the truth and tell them when what they do is more than displeasing to the eye but is something utterly out of line

    we are better than this folks. we are better than this

    Re: your note to Finlake – thank u for putting forth an apology.

    Again Candy – im really sorry for the pain you experienced due to activities in the blogsphere

    I thank you for sharing your pain and anger here

    Be well

    Peace

    Patti

  41. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 22:11:23

    ~sigh~

    SpiritualWings64, I don’t know what you are trying, but what you said has no bearings on who I am… so… take care.

    Patti, like I said before, I hope you and Tayler would come to some kind of compromise one way or other.

    TTYL…

  42. handeyes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 22:20:12

    Finlake – thanks for offering your point of view and owning it

    spiritualwing64 – i dont know if bgmaron8 will be back here to check comments – just FYI. Seems you are identifying a split amongst us – those who see to be Deaf as an additive dimension and a cultural and linguistic part of who we are whereas others view it to be a disability or a nothingness and yes at times those core values do come into conflict

    can they co-exist – i think they can if folks would just stop lying and attacking

    “lions and tigers and bears – oh no” said dorothy and her pals from the land of oz

    it would be great if we could challenge, question, do our homework and come from LOVE

    Karen – i honestly had no idea u were on Ridor’s hit list until someone mentioned it to me a few weeks ago. its real big of u not to attack back.
    re: “not being immune” no one is girl, no one is.
    re: “which side” well for u it seems that is mighty unclear at times but that is fine – we all be on our journey at different places and spaces and paces

    i do worry that u might get a bit of the flame if u look like ur leaning too much our way. u might give it a try and just see how they bite. cuz they really do bite and i would hate to see that happen to u – makes ridor look tame on some days. so if my advise matters – dont try to play it both ways. talk to ur heart and stand firm where ever u feel is just and right – and yes i appreciate that what folks perceive to be “just” and “right” are “relative” – smile
    but there really are some fundamental truths folks – aren’t there????

    “all folks are created equal” etc

    finlake and karen – re: the truth not being absolute

    so if i say this is from an email from tayler saying he will add the word audism on july 1

    that is not a truth? or u think im lying?

    i dont mean to be flippant but im just kinda puzzled here

    spiritualwing64 – i enjoyed reading what u wrote and will muse about it as it may or may not pertain to me

    Karen – u wrote “since both of you already stated that you both respected and liked each other :-)”

    could u please link me or direct me that way cuz i have NOT seen anything of late where tayler is saying he respects and likes me. In fact i have seen stuff that conveys the opposite.

    thanks all for ur comments and for caring

    much peace

    patti

  43. Karen Mayes
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 22:50:23

    I never said that you were lying. Your claim to have the email… maybe he changed his mind after he emailed you? I dunno.

    I re-read Tayler’s blog… He did say that you were welcome to leave any information on his aggragators, so I interpret that he still shows a degree of respect toward you. Well, my weakness is to believe that there’s good in people and that people do show respect and care to everyone. No, no, it’s not weakness…it’s strength, for me. I believe that you and Tayler have it to make peace with each other; both of you have passion, care, wisdom, etc. Hey, that’s how I see. Maybe right now it does not seem that way…

    Sometimes I wish two sides or three sides or all sides become one side, huh? I am not going to worry about being “flamed”… I am here to state that I believe it’s possible for us to shake hands over the spiked fences, no matter who set up the fences in the first place 😉

  44. candy
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 23:09:08

    Patti…

    What really got me going was the hypocrisy. And, let me point that out to you: The comment by ASC. It’s not pain, nor is it anger. It’s the hypocrisy. There are two things that will get me going. Liars and Hypocrites.

  45. candy
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 23:13:46

    It would be wrong to add axdism to guidelines. Very wrong. I think Tayler did right but not adding it.

    That’s my opinion on it and I think we need to move away from that. It’s like having a chip on our shoulder and a suspicious eye on every individual, is he an audist? she an audist? behave like audist? comment sound like audist? on and on, Ridiculous. shifty eyes, we do not need.

  46. candy
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 23:14:13

    by not adding it. typo!

  47. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 23:46:27

    Well, there is a difference between fact and truth. Fact’s absolute and capable of being verified to be the “truth.” Truth is more of a belief of something that’s actually true. However, it’s relative. I see the truth as permeable considering perspective and interpretation is not quite absolute.

    Candy rightly pointed out I was not “there” at DVTV as a regular basis as I am via ASLrocks.net, however it’s a truth on both side of the argument, because I did go to DVTV albeit sporadically. See where I’m going?

    And mind you, I don’t like taking sides, but -MY- side. “For us or against us” in my view presents me an ultimatium, and I have a serious disdain towards ultimatium. I’m too defiance to the end, and do strongly believe in “corrosion of conformity.”

  48. finlake
    Sep 22, 2010 @ 23:49:14

    Err, perspective and interpretation are not quite absolute. Gee, I’m not too bright with my mad engrish skillz, either. :p

  49. Patti
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 00:46:05

    Hi candy
    U may be skating on thin ice here

    Did asc know about the attacks to ur workplace q
    Where r these letters q put them up for all to see

    Just cuz they didn’t climb up on the white horae for ya don’t make them hypocrites
    If they opposed attacks but cheered on ur being attacked then maybe the shoe would fit

    Re ur hating lies – ya hoo me too

    Re
    Your opinion that tayler shouldn’t add audism to the guideline
    What about “disabilities” and “cultures”. Should those be added q

    And back to lies – this is the whole point of my post. I share several FACTS and still u and Karen seem to be defending bgmaron8 right to spread lies falsehoods engage in name calling (which I have seen u do too Candy w the Deaf extremist b.s) and u say nothing

    U said nothing whenever Barry tooted about listing afa an cad as an extremist group in wikipedia

    Some of u even got a kick out of it

    There r se mighty lies and hypocrisy a plenty to go around

    Look forward to all and each of us saying not cool

    Again I don’t condone attacks and falsehoods and I value ridor blogging when he is being forthright firm and clearly states when something is his opinion and something is a fact

    I have the same feelings for ur blogging. There r times when u state things aa facts when they are opinions an times when u state opinions as such and facts as such

    I prefer the latter

    As we noted there seems to be a triple or more standard in the blogsphere. It is a pity

    For me I’ll keep examining my own choices. Advocating for what I believe in and hoping for the best in all of us

    Love and peace
    Patti

  50. handeyes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 01:00:27

    karen – thanks for ur clarification re: ur interpretation

    re: ur weakness of seeing the good in all people – well i may have that weakness also

    it does seem im mighty slow to accept the fact that some folks just plain lie, distort, manipulate, and attack

    re: tayler changing is mind – that is possible but how is a gal to know if he will never tell her that. in fact i did say “we can’t agree to disagree” if the only communication i have from u is “hey, i agree and will be adding that asap”

    re: the handshakes over the spiked fence – thats a yucky imagery.

    ive kinda had the “mending walls” poem in me mind and ive been thinking we dont really even need this wall. if folks can value Deaf Natural Signing folks and Deaf non-signing (or Deaf signing but prefer disability) folks as equal and good them we can trust our pine cones and apples r not gonna cross over to steal from each other

    refusing to publishand disseminate v/blogs that actually attack someone because they are deaf or cuz they are Deaf or cuz they are oral or cuz they are ASL etc – then we see that there is no need for fences and walls

    hope springs eternal

    peace

    patti

  51. handeyes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 01:02:48

    finlake
    the godess is displeased

    “but-MY-side”

    awighty – so be it

    and that u dont hold these truths to be self-evident …

    well that be a shame but it definitely be ur right even if it aint right – MY book

    smile

    but hopefully u wont give a hoot what me think cuz u be ur own island

    peace

    patti

  52. candy
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 03:46:52

    Why did bgmaron9 bring this up?

    Anyone know?

    I don’t go to DVTV often, but he said that there were new people that wondered why there was division. So, he made that video to explain what happened, his version and he asked everyone to throw in theirs.

    Apparently some people in ASLrocks thinks Bgmaron8 just brought it up for no reason at all.

    Patti…

    Hmm.. well I can see why some people will pretend they were not aware of some things. I mean, it don’t matter at this point. Not holding ASC accountable, just pointing out the facts. They make it sound like that these workplace reporting happens only to certain people. Which of course, is not true as you and I know. The implication they have made appear to place the blame on certain group of people. That coming from a professional like them, raises eyebrows.

    Just pointing out typical hypocrisy as usual. Will point it out again and again. You can point out the personal insults and cybersh*t and I’ll point out the hypocrisy. 😉

  53. deafa
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 06:10:12

    I agree, No Audism allow. I know It can be hurtful especially one been deaf for their whole life. Also, There is no reason to put down ASL because you are attacking the person whose only communication is ASL and believes in his language with all his heart and soul.

    Maybe it is just me, but Why does it seem like it is mostly moderate HOH or late deafened give us the most issues and think they have the right to jump in and tell us that we are wrong? What are we wrong about anyway?

  54. Karen Mayes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 11:01:04

    Patti… okay, I take it back… shaking hands over the torn down Berlin wall? Sounds better?

    🙂

    Well, I am not going to lose any sleep over it… like I said before, they got what they wanted… ASLRocks.net. 🙂 Just an interesting vlog about one’s witnessing history… right or wrong, does not matter.

    Gonna be a busy day ahead of me, so I wish you well.

  55. Karen Mayes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 11:20:43

    Candy… no clue here on the reason for bgmaran’s bringing it up. I simply thought it was just an interesting perspective on his part until somehow we ended making it bigger. But that’s OK. But what bothers me is that some people think we blame them for walking out… it is not true. Why, what, etc… they have their own reasons and that’s OK.

    Candy, I hope today will go well for you. Take care.

  56. handeyes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 11:54:50

    hi candy

    you did not answer my question

    do you support DR and DVTV adding “disability” and “culture” to their guidelines?

    re: you what u wrote about ASC comment that got u all fired up re: hypocriscy to the point that u were cussing up a mighty storm:
    1. i re-read their comment and dont see what u see
    you wrote: “They make it sound like that these workplace reporting happens only to certain people. Which of course, is not true as you and I know. The implication they have made appear to place the blame on certain group of people.”

    im now wondering was the “veiled threat” in the letters you got also a perception difference

    did u blog about the attacks to ur work place? if u did can u give me the link

    i really do care about u and i dont think u should have been attacked unjustly so if u can send me the links – id like to do my hw and do a major shout out cuz im on me truth campaign kick

    2. re: bgmaron8’s timing of the vlog
    i asked this question in my blog entry also – why one year later

    things we know

    DR and DVTV have no sponor banners

    ASLrocks just got Convo as a sponsor

    ASLrocks has a Deaf runned hoster – Deaf Vision

    ASLrocks aims to be audism free as best it can

    ASLrocks owner and operator is prompt to respond and consider complaints and follow up accordingly

    ASLrocks goes out of its way to promote Deaf bilingual organizations

    ASLrocks is seeing a boom in vloggers, commentors, and visitors

    ASLrocks celebrates that the language, ASL, does indeed rock

    perfect – no but it is definitely pretty dang good

    re: ur pointing out hypocrisy and me cybersh*t – sure. just fyi i only put me boots on for the truly bustable stuff. not the espousing opinions that r nutty and known to be nutty.

    If u truly dont like LIES – u really should be very upset with bgmaron8’s vlog attacking ruthie and AFA falsely and unjustly and slandering them with the label of Deaf extremist

    would love to see u do that so me eyebrows dont get raised by ur righteous rhetoric that doesnt get consistently applied

    let me know if u do document the cyberbullying u experienced so i can visit it – im pretty much off the grid unless folks send me links. i definitely want to learn more about ur situation and rectify the fact that i wasnt there for ya

    deafa –
    “no audism allowed” me like and u r right “audism is hurtful”
    “no reason to put down ASL” amen – i agree. i have seen a lifetime of folks throwing up their nose at ASL folks. by the way – it is not normally anyones “only communication” most Deaf folks also use English but it is a language that folks love with all their heart and soul as you said

    David Peikoff (Deaf Canadian leader)
    “…. my eyes have been my ears, my fingers my voice, and the sign language the Alpha and Omega of my very existence.”

    re: ur assessment that it is mostly moderate HOH or late deafened – i havent really seen that consistently so i cant really support or agee with that. Some times they try to paint us as all Deaf of Deaf, native signers etc. It can not be boiled down to any simplistic formula

    but what i have been able to gather is that some folks want the right to be identified as DISABLED, some want to be identified as nothing, and some want to be identified as a CULTURAL and LINGUISTIC group. the Disability model is often pitted against the Cultural and Linguistic model

    i dont really think they have to be mutually exclusive. this is why i am adovcating for the inclusion of the word DISABILITY in the DR guideline 8 along with CULTURE

    i am not sure why that is WRONG

    no one can give me an answer on that one. i have no idea why Candy, Karen, and everybody else wouldnt be advocating for the inclusion of those two words

    Karen – re: ;the Berlin wall – yep that be nice. here’s me hand.

    re: “they got what they wanted”
    yes this is mighty ironic that all the attempts to discredit and spread myths and b.s. actually results in moving us closer and closer to our aim – “audism” the term is more widely known and appreciated now than ever, Deafhood the concept and praxis is more widely known and appreciated now than ever, ASL and English (bilingualism) is now more widely known and appreciated now than ever
    DBC still lives and does good
    AFA still lives and does good
    Deafhood foundation still lives and does good
    ASLrocks still lives and does good

    “long live, long live the emancipation of the Deaf”

    re: “Just an interesting vlog about one’s witnessing history… right or wrong, does not matter.”
    this is where we will have to agree to disagree

    to me facts are important, historical accuracy is important

    the fact that it does not matter to you – well, i’m not quite sure you will be able to reach my hand over the Berlin wall if ur be putting on the cloak of denial and neutrality but my hands will still be there when u get there. They will probably be very busy signing away and maybe even making some art and video of how much we shine when we have the “spiritual audacity to assert our somebodyness” but i promise ya – i will stop what im doing to give ya a hug

    enjoy ur day

    peace

    patti

  57. finlake
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 13:33:08

    Well, I’m not too comfortable to take sides on -THIS- issue, because I was not exactly 100% there and am biased. So on this case, I’ll back off and go to my corner.

  58. spiritualwing64
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 13:43:36

    Candy, (((by the way, nice to meet you)))

    “Why did bgmaron9 bring this up?”…..he must have big or little reason to bring it up and do we know his silly reason? No, some of us know his patterns to bring it up once a while and target someone for wrong reason. You can ask him question and he knew the right answer better than us.

    All I do is look at their pride attitudes which Bg and other members always will trying to dig up old hurts and offenses that already have been buried and forgotten. Their past experiences may have made them the way they are because they choose to be stuck in the past. Remember, they truly can have two choices “If you stay in the past & you will be in the mess OR if you move different direction & you will be out of the mess.” Do we have to stay and stuck their past experiences with us? No, we moved on the new direction to help others.

    Karen, “SpiritualWings64, I don’t know what you are trying, but what you said has no bearings on who I am… so… take care.” …
    Why are you sigh about? …I am not pointing at you for who you are. I am here to share my perspectives with you and others. Well, you take care of yourself. =0)

    Now, I am talking to Peace Patti:

    I truly enjoyed to read your blog and comments which you left for me to read. I love to hear about pertain and falsehood.

    Thomas Aquinas reminded me his quote, “Good and evil are essential differences of the act of the will. For good and evil pertain essentially to the will; just as truth and falsehood pertain to the reason, the act of which is distinguished essentially by the difference of truth and falsehood (according as we say that an opinion is true or false.) Consequently, good and evil volition are acts differing in species.”

    I would not surprise if Bgmaron will leave me a comment or not. Once he make the vlog and I am sure he will be embarrassment again just like he did make few vlogs against asleveryday (Adian Mack). Once, he engaged into their past and he always will be in the past. All we know his passion is still target few of the ex vloggers just like few others who we know. =0)

    They are struggling for perfection to gain acceptance and approval from others only brings frustration and never-ending struggle. Our outer life is the part of us that everybody sees, and our inner life is the part that nobody sees, except God and us. I like to think of our inner life as a house made of thoughts that is constantly being built. It is within these “walls” of our thinking that each of us lives. Every thought we accept is like another brick in the wall of the house we are building. If we accept negative, selfish, or other evil thoughts, our “house” will be a mess, and we will find ourselves walled in with the enemy. Once we make the decision to change our thinking, you and I enter into an all-out war with the enemy, and the battlefield is our minds. Armed with the truth, we can begin to take back what the devil has stolen. Sooner or later, the same thought, or one just like it, would return. This cycle would go on and on, and sometimes, by the end of the day they won’t admit they are wrong. “It’s
    very simple. Just think about something else. If you are thinking about something good, then
    the wrong thought has no place to get in. But if you sit around ‘empty-headed,’ then the evil
    thought is always going to jump right back into your mind.”

    Have a great day! =0)

  59. Candy
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 16:30:17

    Spiritualwings…

    likewise.

    To all…

    I asked Q re why Bgmaron8 brought it up. I also gave an answ per his explanation why. Guess everyone overlooked that part? He did explain why. Apparently new vloggers were not understanding why the divide/division.

    Patti…

    umm I didn’t see it as veiled threat. My work place did. Law enforcement did. I know how deaf ppl r. but….even if I saw it as all talk. Others didn’t, and for my safety and rest of participants safety, precaution was taken. We do live in post 9/11 world.

  60. Karen Mayes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 17:42:16

    Amazing at how opinions cause either ripples or waves or tsunamis in any communities, affecting each of us in different ways. The light from a star usually reaches us years later after the star emits light., so many things happen during the travel period. Etc. So of course, when one asks what happened a year later or a decade later, we are bound to tell an IMPERFECT history. Facts or truth? Like Lee said, facts and truth blur each other, influenced by emotions and upbringing.

    Oh well… good dialogue.

  61. candy
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 20:44:03

    no one has to take sides. Ever. 😉 That’s my thinking, although I’m not sure how Patti feels about this.

  62. handeyes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 21:12:36

    hi all

    thanks for ur comments

    spiritualwing64 – wondering if u have read the 5 agreements by ruiz – some of what u wrote reminded me of that. the 5 agreements have been very helpful to me today

    re: sides – i dont feel we must ALWAYS take sides and if we r unsure its usually best not to. but if we know facts – it is always best to stand and side with the truth cuz its the right thing to do

    im a huge fan of gandhi and mlk jr – both practiced soul force / truth force

    im trying to study it – its important

    and ya know what dante had to say about neutrality (see a few comments below as it turns out the Dante quote was really a paraphrasing / summarizing quote by JKF of Dante’s work Inferno)

    peace

    patti

  63. handeyes
    Sep 23, 2010 @ 21:16:57

    link to:
    Jeffrey’s vlog re: leaving DVTV

    link to:
    AFA’s vlog by Ruthie responding to bgmaron’s vlog

    if u view it in aslrocks http://aslrocks.net/?p=10570#comment-32807
    ull see Philantino’s comment where he responds to bgmaron8’s false claims

    peace
    patti

  64. spiritualwing64
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 02:34:45

    Patti,

    No, I have not read about 5 agreements by Ruiz. I am very curious about this! =0) Can you send me the link or book about Ruiz?…..

    I will leave comment tmw about facts and truths. I would love to share with you guys and it is not really hard to explain. =0)

    Good night!

  65. Tom Willard
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 03:48:51

    Wow, I’ve never seen so much pure unadulterated crap as can be found on this page. You people make me embarrassed to be part of the deaf community. Why the hell don’t you all just grow the hell up? It is so shocking to see people like you wasting so much time bickering amongst yourselves. There are so many real problems in the deaf community and so much good work you could be doing but instead you persist in remaining in deep navel gazing mode. Geez you should all be ashamed of yourselves. KNOCK OFF ALL THIS BULLSHIT AND GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!

  66. Joseph Pietro Riolo
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 09:02:02

    By referring to Dante, did you mean: “Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality.” as said or written by President John F. Kennedy? I want to make sure that I understand what you meant by Dante before I make further comment on it.

    To spiritualwing64, You can find the information about five agreements by googling on it. Here is one of the links to try: http://wakinggiant.wordpress.com/2010/01/17/the-five-agreements-by-don-miguel-ruiz/

    Joseph Pietro Riolo
    josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

  67. handeyes
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 10:59:24

    Hi Tom

    There are plenty of times i do not invest in correcting information but when information is disseminated that is full of lies, falsehoods, and attacks, i believe it is one’s moral duty to engage in direct peaceful confrontation. Soul Force / Truth Force.

    Silence = Death

    Good stuff is coming out of it where as if it had been left to be circulated and uncorrected only bad would be possible.

    “We must be the change we want to see in the world.” Gandhi

    Re: naval gazing – never look at mine. Should I? perhaps i should as me mom once said “our belly buttons are God’s thumb print after he has kneaded the dough of the baby into being” – its a cute idea. perhaps i will spend some time naval gazing

    re: ashamed and shame. well it is a shame that any of this is even going on.

    re: getting back to work – confronting untruths with love and faith and hope is part of the work but worry not – my eyes have not left the real prizes. Still challenging audism in all its nooks and crannies.

    Peace in,

    Patti

  68. handeyes
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 11:21:45

    Hi Joseph

    thank u for giving the link to spiritualwing64 –
    spiritualwing64 – u can find the book via amazon or most big bookstores its pretty popular

    re: Dante’s quote re: neutrality – i think its from the Inferno

    i didnt realize that JKF had used it – ill check into the what and where of when JKF used it cuz i love history
    I just checked it out and see that it is not a direct quote that is attributed to Dante despite the poster (see link at bottom crediting Dante) but rather it is a paraphrasing of Dante’s work by JKF
    http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Dante+Quote.htm

    Joseph – how do i love thee, let me count the ways. i love learning stuff and this a.m. because of u, i have learned something knew – that Dante didn’t say those direct words but JKF said “as the poet Dante once said….” and folks mistook it for a direct quote. I also thank u because ur raising the question sent me on the fact-finding mission and lead me to the primary document of Dante’s original writing and i always love going back to the original source. JKF i think did a just job of summarizing down the main concept of that literary imagery that Dante has created so its good to learn this fact and also to see Dante’s own writing ( i have never read Inferno before)

    did ya know that JKF’s famous “ask not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country” was kinda borrowed from Kahlil Gibran?

    “Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country? If you are the first, then you are a parasite; if the second, then you are an oasis in a desert.” Khalil Gibran (1925)

    Those Kennedy boys were very literate folks – love Robert Kennedy’s speech in 1968 against the Vietnam war and his use of Tacitus’ quote “they made a desert and called it peace”

    now back to JKF’s quote and Dante concept re: neutrality – this is not my favorite quote really because i have no idea of heaven or hell and i dont like the concept of folks being damned at all. but is a very pointed quote re: neutrality

    for this case – someone making a slanderous and false vlog attacking a person and an organization – i dont thing it qualifies as a “great moral crisis” no not at all but for the more philosophical discussion we were moving into re: are “truths” what are “facts” what is “history” what are our duties when injustice takes place and the discussion of “neutrality”

    when u knowingly choose to do nothing when u see a wrong has taken place – that to me is wrong

    this is what MLK Jr wrote about at length in his letters from birmingham
    http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

    this is why when Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that most people believe that Washington (our govt) was behind the 9/11 attacks against our own civilians in a conspiracy to protect Israel – several of the world leaders walked out at the UN yesterday.

    Sure he has a right to his opinion but he does not have a right to espouse falsehoods. My daughter seeing my webbrowser open to the BBC and the headlines after reading the article asked – is that possibly true? I said well this same man said the Holocaust never happened. And she was like wtf – and im like YEP.

    so neutrality – when u know something to be UNTRUE equates to
    silence = death

    not cool

    not cool

    but folks holding back on where to stand or what to stand for until they have done their hw – that is generally a good thing

    link to poster with the mis-attributed “Dante” quote and different symbols for groups that have struggled for equality and justice

    your thoughts Joseph?

    much peace

    Patti

  69. PopeMistress
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 11:37:05

    GM Patti- rain here this dark morning!

    Just got parking spot on top PO roof.

    Uhm, I was thinking of Gandhi’s life. Gandhi was 11 yrs old when the Milan 1880 destructed the Deaf education + Deaf community. Gandhi was 13 yrs old when he got married to his 14 yrs old wife. Gandhi did admitted that he does NOT know much about marriage.

    When Gandhi was 19 yrs old, he went study law school in London University.

    Somehow one of the FBers did mentioned about Gandhi’s controversy life under my post on FB. That made me think that the British do have favoritism on Gandhi. I know that Gandhi’s religion was Hindi + one of the Hindi man shot Gandhi.

    I don’t know if there were some Hindi people against Hindi people! There are some different individual religious people do have life background experiences thru the dyconscious oppressions. Of course, there are Catholics against Catholics, Hindi against Hindi, Muslims against Muslims, Jewish against Jewish, etc….

    Sometimes spirits against spirits! Oh well! I look at 5 agreements websites, it does NOT happen everyday becuz some people do have favoritism if they have college degrees in case if they have the luck thru bad economy. That’s my own personal opinion.

    I ain’t waste my own time becuz I went thru seeing the person who did oppressed on others becuz there are some dyconcious audism just like I have.

    Some spirits are fool which are waste of times for us to pay TAX! I guess the British are playing mentally games to use Gandhi in news media to make other India people mixed up feelings! That was possible cause some people do not like Gandhi????

    Gotta get out of my son’s truck to go in my work place! Hope you will have a good weekend!

  70. handeyes
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 12:14:11

    good morning pope mistress

    glad u got a parking spot

    re: Gandhi – thanks for all u shared. It is very sad that he was assassinated by a fellow Hindu. Gandhi worked tirelessly after the liberation of India from England to forge unity between Muslims and Hindus – i dont know enough about their conflict but this is often seen that when the oppressor is removed then internal groups will fight over conflicts or power.

    Gandhi fasted several times to the point of near death in protest to the bloodshed between Hindus and Muslims – he was willing to die for his beloved people and to him this meant Muslims and Hindus alike.

    The Hindu man who killed Gandhi was part of a group that felt Gandhi was showing too much compassion for Muslims.

    RE: Gandhi’s controversial life – there have been many false things said about him just as there have been about MLK because different powers were trying to undermine their truth campaigns.

    What you wrote reminded me also of the Israel Prime Minister Rabin – He was Jewish and working hard to forge a peace with the Palestinian people yet he was assassinated by a right-wing Jewish extremist.

    I cried very hard when i saw the news of this.

    re: ur use of the word “favoritism” im not sure what you mean. maybe if u have time u can explain. im off to work now will be back tonight.

    Peace,

    Patti

  71. spiritualwing64
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 13:14:36

    Thank you Joseph and Patti for the link and I will check it out soon.

    Who is Tom Willard? LOL…it is very interesting that someone leave comment and blew up their head off at us. LOL…..I am not interesting his comment. (((Scoff laughing)))

    Oh, I almost forgot about something (((facts and truths))).

    What is the clear difference between a fact and a truth?

    Well, if we look into most dictionaries, you will be amazed to find that the two words are actually very close in terms of their definitions. This is because the two terms are very much related. That’s why we can’t blame people for recognizing both as similar terms.

    “Facts” can answer certain ‘why’ questions, like ‘where’ or ‘when’, and even ‘how’, while “truth” answers the question ‘why’. The question of ‘how’, and even ‘what’, are said to be answerable by either of the two.

    So, we do know what is the opposite of truth and fact?…..lies and opinions!

    I truly do not support if anyone carried their opinions against someone or any organizations and share the lies. This is not cool at all!

    Have a crazy day! =0)

  72. spiritualwing64
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 13:44:18

    The Five Agreements:

    1. BE IMPECCABLE WITH YOUR WORD
    Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

    2. DON’T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY
    Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

    3. DON’T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS
    Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

    4. ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST
    Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are tired as opposed to well rested. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.

    5.BE SKEPTICAL, BUT LEARN TO LISTEN
    Don’t believe yourself or anybody else. Use the power of doubt to question everything you hear: Is it really the truth? Listen to the intent behind the words, and you will understand the real message.

    Now, I read those 5 agreements. I truly support this. I have no doubt about this agreements. Listen to myself and others are very important step to put ourselves in health discussions and also, make sure you or I listen their actions, motives, and thoughts to share. I truly like to share my perspective with others either positive or negative because we do have balance our spirits in wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.

    Joesph and Patti, I truly appreciate your time to share with me. =0)

  73. Candy
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 15:08:01

    Patti..

    You said:

    “you did not answer my question

    do you support DR and DVTV adding “disability” and “culture” to their guidelines?”

    I always prefer to stick to simplicity. EEO guidelines is pretty much sufficient. the problem with what was going on is misunderstanding and assumptions. Let me give you an example here, ok? When Aquabo send that email to my work place, she told them that she has evidence that I am some sort of racist or audist and look down at deaf people, or something like that (I would have to go back to verify exactly what she said…). Her evidence? What? My post. Name of my post? Ideology of the Deaf. In that post, I did not put deaf people down. I did not insult them. nuh uh. In that post I made reference to how historically deaf people have been considered dumb. Right, Patti? You and I know how deaf people have been portrayed. But, Aquabo did not take into consideration what the context of my post was about. She saw “deaf people are dumb” and she jumped to conclusion. Read my post, ideology of the deaf, and tell me if I was putting deaf people down. What really happen: Aquabo don’t like Candy. Aquabo saw Candy’s post “Ideology of the deaf”. Aquabo scan quick for any word that is offensive. Aquabo saw “deaf are dumb”. Aquabo goes into a fit! Ideology of the deaf was not referring to dumb deaf people. Ideology of the deaf covered in part about history of how deaf people were looked at. Aquabo jumped to conclusion BIG time. Aquabo now look silly. Aquabo need to real the WHOLE post. That’s what happened, Patti. sigh.

    So, the answer to your question is, what difference does it make? I mean we are all deaf and hard of hearing, we all experience many similar things. We all have discussions, and we all have different views.

    EEO statement is good enough. Simplicity. We all need to respect differences and be tolerant of the differences. For example, we all need to be cordial to the oralist too if we expect the oralist to be cordial to us. no?

    If deafread and DVTV have problem with outsiders coming in to bash deaf/hh people in general, then I can see where you’re coming from. But, Patti, we all are deaf/hh. We need to remind people to refrain from getting personal. Stick to the topic.

    Another thing..I have noticed, people do NOT read the whole comment, People do NOT read the whole post. People do NOT watch the whole video. People prefer to read the title of a vlog or title of a blog and start bitchin. ahh.. Thus, I tend to ask: Did you read it?? did you watch it all??

    People tend to jump to conclusions based on who is behind that particular post or video.

  74. finlake
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 15:42:00

    Tom Willard.

    Look at who’s talking:

    To me, Tayler Mayer was a representative of the deaf community and this situation was a major turn-off. It represented all that was bad about the deaf world, the stupid people and idiotic situations that we constantly have to deal with.

    As of now, I just do Deafweekly. Other than that, I don’t bother trying to do any good work for the deaf community anymore. I don’t go to deaf events or keep up with the blogs & vlogs. I could write grants and win tons of money for the deaf world, but I don’t want to. I am totally burned out.

    —————————————–

    Maybe you oughta take it easy and not blow your piehole onto us in regards to our discussion? Just a feedback. Why would I copy and paste from your wordpress? Simply because “Wow, I’ve never seen so much pure unadulterated crap as can be found on this page. You make me embarrassed to be part of the deaf community.”

    Now, how does that make you feel had I said that on your page? If you don’t like it, then shut your piehole unless if you got something better to contribute. If you do like it, I’ll shut my piehole and stay in my corner twiddling my thumb whilst reading the goddess’ blog.

  75. handeyes
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 20:00:45

    heye

    spiritualwing64 –
    thanks for ur thoughts re: truths / facts and lies / opinions
    also for copying and pasting a summary of the 5 agreements. folks should check out the book – its a pretty easy read. I dont agree with all of it but it certainly comes in handy and has helped to keep me grounded and centered at times. I thought u might like it cuz there is a detailed description about mitotoe (sp?) at the beginning of the book and it seemed in sync with some of the stuff u were trying to put forth earlier. if u do read the book and wanna have a book discussing of it in ASL at http://www.ASLrocks.net – let me know when and where and ill meet ya

    candy –
    re: our reading skills – yes we r all lacking at times and we often see only what we want to see.

    re: being misunderstood and folks misunderstanding and then later twisting stuff to misrepresent – i understand

    sucks

    re: EEO – they include “disability” DR does not – the reason why i have been advocating for the inclusion of “disability” and “culture” or “ethnicity (including natural signed language people)” for the past year was because i’m familiar with the EEO and cuz i heard ya a while back when u were singing about ur right to subscribe to a disability model. I do not not not not want to “diss” u for that right. I know that some folks prefer it and i dont want to fight u on that – i also know that some Deaf folks and/or Hearing folks are differently abled in various ways and DR oughta respect and protect them like the other groups it has listed

    again i got NO NO NO NO idea why it is such an issue to add that word

    i also know that unless u specify “culture” or and an explanation after “ethnicity” folks r gonna say Natural Signed Language folks are NOT covered cuz there are folks who say deaf folks are a disability ONLY

    i dont want folks denying u the right to self-identify as u see fit and i dont want folks denying me the right to self-identify as i see fit and then there are the folks who straddle many of the categories (race, age, gender, disability, culture…) etc and maybe be attacked under more than one at once

    Tayler has now made it abundantly clear that he has no desire or intentions of honoring his word of adding “disability” and “culture” to the guidelines.

    I have no further faith that if he were to do the right thing that he would have the ability to enforce his own guidelines consistently and justly given the fact that he is now engaging in harassment and cyber defamation against me.

    I am sorry for the disrespect that have been shown to you in the past.

    i do really thank u for showing up here in various places for the dialogue. As u noted very few folks will take the TIME to listen, understand, and work out thorny differences.

    finlake – i think what u have been contributed to at aslrocks has been real important and a great investment of ur time, talent, and energy. pls keep it up. dont despair.

    re: tom’s note – it is kinda odd that he felt it would be worthwhile of his time to chastise us in how we choose to use our time but this seems to be the nature of the blosphere – folks inhibitions are usually in the negatives

    re: your corner – i suspect u will come out fighting when u see fit and i only ask when ya do – u come from love.

    re: the “goddess” – too funny u

    much peace all

    patti

  76. Joseph Pietro Riolo
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 21:11:39

    (I wrote the next three paragraphs without knowing that Ms. Patti Durr updated her comment. In other words, she beat me to it. Rather than discarding the whole three paragraphs, I will leave them as it is for anyone’s benefit if any.)

    Actually, Dante (Dante Alighieri) did not write these words as appeared in the quotation. The quotation that I copied in my previous comment could be misattribution, mistranslation or, in case of President John F. Kennedy, personal interpretation. According to CliffNotes’ website (search for “The Divine Comedy: Inferno” and look up Canto III), Dante spoke of people who were not committed to follow the Almighty or Satan. They could not care about right or wrong. Or, they could be indecisive. These could be similar to neutrality, depending on how one could interpret. For me, uncommitted is not always same as neutrality.

    Also, these people were not in the hottest places as claimed by President Kennedy. They were just outside of hell, before the first circle of hell. CliffNotes’ website has a nice map of hell. Hypocrisy, for example, that Candy talked about is in eighth circle of hell. That is much worse than uncommitted, according to Dante’s perspective. (The final ninth circle of hell, for those who are curious, is reserved for traitors.)

    I mentioned these things just to show that the quotation that is commonly attributed to Dante is not what he wrote or meant.

    My motivation for entering the discussion is to defend neutrality. It is not a bad ten-letter word. Sometimes, it is absolutely necessary. Red Cross and Red Crescent came to my mind. One of their fundamental principles is neutrality. Rules for conflict of interest exist mainly to maintain impartiality that includes high degree of neutrality.

    The vlog that was made by bgmaron8 can be unsettling for some people. I really don’t know what to make of it. This is where neutrality can help me. It helps me to keep my mind open to all sides and be willing to receive any new information. The Fifth Agreement said to learn to listen. This is where neutrality can force me to be more receptive to different perspectives from different sides.

    I am aware that neutrality may not be acceptable for some people and I will let them be. Here, I want to inject support for neutrality.

    Joseph Pietro Riolo
    josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

    Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.

  77. finlake
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 21:49:04

    Uh for further clarification, I was pointing out the irony of Tom Willard scolding at us when he’s no better himself when this was extracted from -HIS- blog:

    “To me, Tayler Mayer was a representative of the deaf community and this situation was a major turn-off. It represented all that was bad about the deaf world, the stupid people and idiotic situations that we constantly have to deal with.

    As of now, I just do Deafweekly. Other than that, I don’t bother trying to do any good work for the deaf community anymore. I don’t go to deaf events or keep up with the blogs & vlogs. I could write grants and win tons of money for the deaf world, but I don’t want to. I am totally burned out.”

    That wasn’t me typing. That was Tom Willard’s typing.

  78. handeyes
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 22:09:15

    Joseph –

    i like what u shared very much. Re: neutrality – i don’t think i was saying folks should never be neutral. There is a time and a place for it. But i also am challenging us – and i include myself here too – to examine when and why we choose to be neutral and if in fact we really are neutral at times.

    But i do appreciate what u have shared as it shows the complexities of truths and also how JKF used the paraphrasing to suit his point of view etc.

    re: the 5th agreement – yes this has become very important to me

    i had been familiar with the first 4 agreements and called upon them many times. the 5th one was more recently added by Ruiz and his son and it is very important. There are times when i am way too hopeful and naive so i need a bit more skepticism – there are other times when i am way to skeptic and need to listen more.

    Lately i have been trying to hear what is not being said as well as what is being said.

    Finlake –
    thank you so much for clarifying

    i had wondered why the ——- was in ur post

    now i get it – u posted ur below note on his own blog. didnt realize he had a blog

    sorry im slow to the take

    much peace

    patti

  79. spiritualwing64
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 22:52:19

    Patti

    mitotoe (sp?) Correct me if I am wrong. Mistletoe ? The custom of hanging it at Christmas and kissing under it .

    I would love to discuss about this book either your blog or aslrocks.net….First I have to buy this book and we can set it up. =0)

    Let me share my thoughts: As I pondered this situation, they had “wilderness mentalities.”
    they go around and around the same mountain (Like Mt. Ella, Mt Deafhood, Mt. AFA, Mt. DBC, or anything) LOL (I love my creative thinker) & target few ex vloggers & any of deaf organizations instead of making progress for them willing to change themselves. It takes us months or years to experience victory over something that could, and should, have been dealt with quickly and put behind us. They won’t put their past experience behind and move on new direction. It showed me that wilderness mentalities are wrong mindsets. We can have right mindsets that will benefit us to create our ideas, goals, or etc….. OR…..their wrong mindsets that will hurt them and hinder their progresses. We need our minds set us in the right direction. Wrong mindsets not only affect our circumstances, but they also affect our inner life.

    Some people see things negatively because they’ve experienced unhappy circumstances all their lives and can’t imagine anything getting any better. Then there are those who see everything as bad and negative simply because that’s the way they feel on the inside. Whatever the cause, a negative outlook leaves a person miserable and unable to make any progress toward to help their deaf communities. ” Remember, they truly can have two choices “If you stay in the past & you will be in the mess OR if you move different direction & you will be out of the mess.”

    Have a great evening!

  80. Deaf
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 23:21:41

    And some people think negativity about themselves because how other people treat them. They often put themselves down. And sometimes it isn’t them being negative as people view it , but more of accepting of their unique character . Like the time I watched about African American quiltmaking on PBS. They love their quilts. But when they tried to enter a contest, The judges told them that their stitches weren’t straight and even. So they didn’t win. They disagree with the judges and told them it is who they are and this is their creative piece and the perfection of stitches does not matter to them. Guess what, their quilts are in museums now and are very valuable.

  81. Deaf
    Sep 24, 2010 @ 23:27:14

    I usually say, ” I have a long way to live and I’m not going to waste it being miserable about my deafness” I already wasted it on my childhood growing up (because I was surrounded by hearing people in school as well at home- I had a very low expectation of myself because I often compare myself with hearing children, their work and grades and everything, I was even put in LD English because I was delay in writing. Not a good feeling at all)

  82. ASCDEAF
    Sep 25, 2010 @ 14:49:03

    It was brought to our attention that some comments were made here accusing ASC of being hypocritical when it comes to defending v/bloggers against attacks on their employment. As noted previously, ASC walked out of DVTV/DR because of cyberbullying.

    For the record, we do not condone ANY threats to people’s employment, no matter whether we agree or disagree with their political opinions or not. Because we are no longer members of DVTV/DR and do not follow these sites, we are not always aware of ongoing threats and issues there. We are not able to keep up with everything going on online; our lack of comments does not reflect hypocrisy or selective defense, but rather a lack of knowledge of everything that is going on, and a lack of time for getting involved with every issue.

    PS. Patti, even though we clicked the “notification” box below so we can be aware of any follow-up comments to your post, we have not been getting any notifications via email. You may want to check to see if something is wrong with the feature. Thanks!

  83. handeyes
    Sep 25, 2010 @ 22:25:08

    Spiritual64 – no its not the little christmas thingy. its a spanish word – but im unsure of spelling mitote

    ASL book club of the 5 agreements – ya hoo. sign me up. email me when ur ready to start and we can agree when/where in aslrocks etc. let others know too etc.

    re: what u wrote – i really like ur creative mind and words – im uncomfortable with ur use of “they” etc though – cuz i assume “they” see “us” the same way sometimes

    its really up to us if we wanna keep going round the mullberry bush or if we want to confront and move forward

    Deaf – thanks for both ur notes. I believe u r talking of the need to “have the spiritual audacity to assert our somebodyness” MLK

    yep dont let nobody tell u – u r nothing cuz they be wrong. I’m sorry about your experiences. that is very hard and wrong. I am glad u r in recovery from deafness and coming to understand urself as a WHOLE being and assert ur somebodyness!

    ASCDEAF – thank you for sharing your comment here. Its real important what u share. RE: the “notification” box and u not getting nothing – boo. have not idea how to look into that but ill clunk around in the dashboard and see what me find

    (if anyone knows do do – im all eyes)

    Peace all

    patti

  84. the one and only ridor
    Sep 25, 2010 @ 23:18:45

    Gina: The reason why people contacted the certain individual about you providing the workshop is for you to *taste* your own medicine. Your pals has been terrorizing me, Carl, Barb, Candace and many others with that type of attacks and you stood idly.

    Payback is bitch, sometimes.

    I am aware that there are people who disagreed with my antics from time to time and I have no qualms about that. They are their own persons with their own minds. But for you to attack Deafhood as a “cult” is insulting, demeaning and juvenile thing to do so.

    R-

  85. handeyes
    Sep 25, 2010 @ 23:36:26

    Heye ridor

    i know u ain’t addressing me but ill respond just in case Tayler is cruising to see who im fraternizing with and who i ain’t etc.

    re: “taste of ur own medicine” – not my taste but i understand it is to many other folks just as all the KARMA CRAP that folks yap about

    only meds and karma we should be worrying about is our own ; )
    (my opinion – not a fact or a truth folks)

    re: “cult” oh man geez Candy calling Deafhood a cult – lord

    heye why dont we start one – along with the conspiracy we got going.

    U can be King of the Cult and Ill be Queen or shall you be Queen and Ella King or shall…

    who’s spin is it now – im dizzy.

    But in seriousness since u r here and since i know u wont really care but i gotta be me with me own minds – like ya said. I don’t approve of ya sending no letters to folks employers to give someone a taste of their own medicine. Not cool. Not cool.

    eye for an eye makes the world blind

    u rock when u vlog about principles and practices over personalities

    so cut out that crapola ok – cut a new leaf and soar!

    Much peace

    Patti

  86. Candy
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 00:22:12

    ha. Ridor, u r really somethin. I am only accountable for my actions. I have not seen anyone attacking u directly. point to it pls. fyi, I told Russell what he said to Ella wasn’t cool. And, while ur here and ASC is here…how about coming out clean with how u got the information u vlogged about Barry and his son, barry and his brother and all that. Nikki tweeted crap about Barry to you and u ran off with that story. I saw it, so don’t lie! If ASC knew the truth, I doubt they wud have sid anything. And crap has been going on at ASLrocks and ASC approves of em I think…cuz they didn’t walk out of ASLrocks. I never said dh is a cult…i asked if it is. I did used to think it is. now it seems like some slippery slope towards it. Two wrongs don’t make it right. and there is NO justification for contacting anyones workplace. period.

  87. handeyes
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 02:12:58

    heye candy

    i know ur talking to ridor but since iim here –

    last time we chatted here – u said u would tackle hypocrisy and i could focus on the lying / b.s. BUSTING stuff. i got me boots off for the moment so u r safe … for now (no that ain’t a threat tayler – im just playing – me and candy’s is friendly see see)

    but girl i must admit im a bit perplexed by why u r not doing a major shout out about tayler’s hypocrisy – ya know having guidelines against cyberbullying (his term) and name calling and then he does an attack blog against me saddling me with all kinds of names, monitoring me movements in the world wide web and lodging false accusations against me (the very definition of cyberbullying he uses and yet he engages in cyberbullying against me) – girl if that aint the definition of hypocrisy – i dont know what is

    but i know that is ur turf and not mine. I just aint sure why u r focusing on some past occurrences and not the one right under ur nose cuz it was LISTED on DeafRead with 371 hits.

    pls dont tell me u r engaging in a bit of ur own hypocrisy

    perhaps u were to busy blogging today. kinda sad u couldnt make a bit of time for me there – blah blah blah Deafhood cult????? and geez Tayler went off the deep end after Patti didn’t he

    but nah

    priorities?????

    not sure but…..

    dont worry – im still pretty loyal to me truth campaign and ill try to find the time to take a good look over at ur place for any potential lies.

    i aint gonna worry about hypocrisy detection – to me that seems to be more of a “relative” than facts and lies

    not if that its any of my business but u got me might curious about why what nikki tweeted and ridor vlogged about has gotten u sooooo upset. I have seen u mention this particular item once before.

    it seems this is incredibly DAMNING in your eyes but im not quite getting it.

    Was it right or good for them to share this – i have no idea. but if it was factual and not a falsehood then maybe not tasteful to have shared but since Barry is a public figure as is ridor etc etc – dont they have special rules about sharing opinions or facts for such (remember that ACLU for the internet group) i dont think what they did would qualify as internet defamation

    now say N had taken video produced of Barry and gave it to ridor to package in a way that would hurt or discredit barry – now that would qualify as a couple of violations – if they sent it to state senators talking about the myth making of the Deaf community

    or say they were getting folks to send letters to the CA state dept of justice with false information about the CAD bylaws and Ella

    wow – im just realizing now that u never said a word about those instances – u never made a peep of protest

    oh dang and crud – hypocrisy aint my area – its urs. i got way too confused sometimes in the spinning web

    re: ASLrocks

    my experience with ASLrocks is its pretty dang quick to remove a vlog if the vlog violates their guidelines

    if u r talking about vlogs that Jeffrey put up to demonstrate what audism riddled rhetoric looks like – that was a demonstration and not audism.

    but i dont monitor all the vlogs in aslrocks but i have confidence that ASC would do a shout out if they say someone engaging in cyberbullying – especially if it involved children. and Candy u havent been holding up ur end of the slope re: doing shout outs when u see FALSE And RELENTLESS and UNJUST attacks – no girl u have not. oh dear! (slapping my hand – hypocrisy is not ur area Patti – its candy’s and its not polite of u to point out any transgressions or lapse, or oversights in her own actions or lack there of – sorry. Should i point out how you, Candy, shouted about HATING LYING and HYPOCRISY and it made u so sick but how when folks r lying about me or appearing hypocritical by violating their own guidelines that maybe you were lying about hating lying and hypocrisy cuz maybe u r engaging in both ur self. Nah, i better not).

    aslrocks aint perfect but it is trying – it is only as good as we make it and hopefully the rotten apples will straighten up. at least we aint got no rotten potatoes or onions cuz the STINK and totally infect the others much faster.
    (note this is an opinion and not a fact)

    re: the slippery slope – i certainly hope when i get the chance to visit ur place i dont find out that u be the one tilting that slope down to try to make us all slide and crash in ur candyland molasses swamp

    come on girl we got much more important things than this to fuss over

    I do love u and some day – i am determined (but i am also a lousy judge of character as tayler has proven of me having believed in him for so long and hard) that once u and i find a common ground – one single little item agree on that is worth the fight – we will rock the planet.

    i aint found it yet but some days i think we have come mighty close.

    Yeah sometimes we need to lay out the truths and facts on the table – its a hafta do.

    but all the other noise – pointing the finger and name calling and CONTACTING FOLKS WORK PLACE UNJUSTLY – wrong wrong wrong. gotta stop.

    re: ridor – i do hope u ridor will consider my appeal to vlog vlog vlog truths, facts, opinions cuss words and all to ur hearts content. stay clear of personalities – they aint worth it – just drums them up traffic.

    ur jail series is very important

    peace

    patti

  88. Candy
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 07:18:33

    Egads, here you go off on another looong comment. Hard to follow, ya know? lol

    Exactly what do you see as cyber attack?

    You should know I have not had my feed into DR for a long time, since DR banned CIO. I didn’t see DR as my turf. I remember the walk out was because of several things, the accusation that DR allowed blogs/vlogs that exploited children (I already pointed out what I saw to Ridor) and the fact that Tayler refused to add axdism to their guidelines. I did not get involved at the time and I believe I was still boycotting DR too. lol

    That said….that is probably why I didn’t get into it and felt that it was between you and Tayler.

    As for today, well..I had to go somewhere and was on the road and up north all day. I managed to approve comments on my blog and responded to only a few. Managed to respond to Ridor above while I was on the road, cuz I have your comments send to my email. Check the IP, you’ll be able to tell… 😉

    As for N and B, well just making my point. Cuz if N didn’t tweet that, then none of that mess would have happened. That’s my point. That’s another hypocrisy right there. You’re right, I brought it up and it was swept under the rug. Why did B get all the crap about exploiting kids when N was doing the same thing? I have a feeling that N would prefer that this didn’t come up again, since she did say it was between her and B and since ASC brought it up, I brought it up too.

    Moving on…

    i’m going to check Tayler’s post to see if I can detect any cyber attack that you’re referring to.

    I don’t have any control over many bloggers just as much as you don’t over many vloggers. They’re gonna do what they’re gonna do, right?

    Nope, not talking about Jeffery’s vlog. lol, I get a kick out of watching his vlogs, to be honest with ya. Don’t mean I agree with him. He’s a riot.

    I’m talking about vlogs that attacks people in a personal way. I’d have to go find it and point it out to you, ok? Take OIC’s vlog, that wasn’t really a personal attack. See the difference? Maybe the problem here is we all see it differently, what’s cyber attack to one may not be cyber attack to another?

    Until then…I’ll be back.

  89. Candy
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 07:33:21

    Patti…

    You’re going to have to point out to the specific sentence Tayler said that you felt was a cyber attack. If you’re referring to him calling you a harasser, that’s not name calling. That’s his expression of what he felt based on his view of what you did. Not going to take sides here over this. Other than that, I don’t see any attack.

    And, I don’t have issues with his guidelines at this point. I have been submitting my post to DR with the knowledge that it cannot cross certain lines. And, so far, I think I have managed to stay away from that dangerous line.

    Like some people, I hope you and Tayler find some common ground to work this out.

  90. handeyes
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 11:29:43

    Good a.m. Candy –

    Little digs re: me lengthiness at times r sticks and stones – u r better than that

    Spelling avdism is also silly but hey its ur fingertips not mine – u r just leaving a trail for all to see how u spin it. I thought better of ya but again im learning a lot about my judgment skills these days

    1. cyber attack? See the definition that DVTV r list uses for cyberbullying – (see me post above). Ive spelled out in my post and in my comment above what I see as Tayler using the internet via his own blogging and listing on his own system a cyber attack to harass (false accusations, monitoring, and harassing) also the name calling bit

    “harasser” is name calling and he has accused several other folks of being “Harassers” if they send him a few emails after he goes silent and they are unsure if he received them

    very weird business practice, eh?

    Pin drop, eh?

    2. I am glad to know that u boycotted DR after Cochlear Online was banned. I thought that was an unjust banning and regretted that I didn’t walk out of DR there and then. It was the first time I saw how they used their guidelines selectively and was a heads up

    3. I never said u see DR as ur turf?

    4. just fyi the words “disability” and “culture” were agreed to be added into the guidelines by Tayler over one year ago. If you were aware of the boycott due to his refusal to do what he said he would and you rejoined DR at that time – kinda interesting eh? Also, why u decided to return and when despite CIO still being banned hmmmm? Kinda odd but heye…

    and u still never answer me question about WHAT IS WRONG WITH ADDING “disability” and “culture” to the guidelines – almost seems to be that u agree they should be there cuz (aUdism would be bad since u cant spell it right) and disability is in the EEO as u pointed out)

    yep I got my reading glasses on and im making us stick to the point of my blog entry

    egads

    5. re: ur IP – girl u totally don’t know me. I don’t give a hoot about folks IPs and I aint monitoring ur movements Im just asking questions. Throwing some of ur own stuff back in ur lap and seeing how it smells and feels…. Love. This is what friends do for each other. Pretty soon I may conclude I have been foolish to try. Many folks have said its not worth it but I see something in u that tells me it is. Hope I am not wrong.

    6. re: N and B and moving on – good plan cuz that is twisty stuff u be playing there

    7. re: ur liking Jeffrey’s vlogs – he is a great blogger too. Multilingual and all that jazz. Did ya see his vlog explaining why he left DVTV (see above for link). Not a riot but good food for thought with correct spelling of the A word.

    8. re: we all see things differently – yes that is a known and a given but hey every once and a while we find a common ground – like Jeffrey ; )

    9. re: cyber attack and name calling. U say “calling you a harasser, that’s not name calling” oh this may be a case of I say potatoe and u say potato
    he also stated that he is monitoring my comments in FB and Twitter and accusing me of being a cyberbully by associating with Ricky Taylor (ie Ridor)
    and there are the false accusations (the FB and twitter comments where I attack him huh? And the stating that I requested the abuse agency to write a letter to accuse him of cyber bullying and that they have withdrawn their letter)
    Those are false accusations against me and the abuse agency with the intention accusing me of cyberbullying him – that is the hypocrisy I called u to CALL HIM on
    But u spun it to be that I was asking u to determine if he is committing cyberbullying against me

    That was not me point so ill try a little a bit of logic mapping here:
    a. u abhor hypocrisy (see ur top comment in this strand)
    b. Tayler posts to email responses to AFA in his Y3 blog and carries them on Deafread
    c. the 2nd blog entry has false accusations against me, reveals he is monitoring my internet activity by saying im making comments about him to Ridor in twitter (what im saying he wont say) and in FB (what im saying he wont say) and that since I align myself with a known cyberbully (even though I have waged my finger at said Ridor many a times privately and publicly) and I have been HARASSING tayler by sending him a few emails over one year – another false accusation that I am a cyberbully
    c. And no shout out from candy re: her hating lying and hypocrisy – ODD, eh?

    that’s me point

    i do not want or expect or need ya to do a shout out on me behalf. In fact it would shock me pants off and utterly confuse me.

    Nobody needs to do a shout out for ME – but plenty of folks should be doing a SHOUT OUT FOR JUSTICE.

    Me point above is to point out how when u r so busy to be pointing the finger at others u may be neglecting to practice what u r preaching. That’s all.

    Re: ur hope that tayler and I can find some common ground to work this out.
    I believe we have:
    a. he has made it clear to the cyberworld that as owner and operator of 2 Deaf website systems that if he does not reply to you it means he has CUT YOU OFF but he wont let u know that and if u send him some follow up emails cuz u don’t know that he does not wish to have any communication from u – u are a harasser
    this I think is good information for folks who use DR and DVTV to know
    this is good information for folks who carry their stuff on DR and DVTV like u Candy

    b. he has made it clear that if u challenge him and his enforcement of his own guidelines and his former written commitments to you – he will attack you
    this I think is good information for folks who use DR and DVTV to know
    this is good information for folks who carry their stuff on DR and DVTV like u candy

    c. this affords folks like u to decide if u want to stay with DR/DVTV or not
    I accept whatever choice u make. Just wanted it to be clear that u have choices and options. Informed choice, know

    d. Tayler and I can now agree to disagree as he has made it abundantly clear that he will not be adding “disability” and “culture” to the guidelines

    e. It is nice to see a few of u coming to the “work it out table” just when all hope has been vanished for me. Who knows maybe he will surprise me and do the right thing. I’m open to hope.
    I

    Ya hooo – I aimed to make a mighty lengthy reply to Candy so u could make little digs at me re: my length

    Gotta give ya something don’t I

    And heye – when ya gonna put up ur pictures of the mountains – id much rather be discussing mountains with u than examining each of our own hypocrisy

    If u ever do spot me lying though – that I would appreciate a shout out about cuz I be on the truthforce / soulforce campaign

    Peace

    Patti

  91. Candy
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 16:26:59

    sigh. Patti. You and I obviously see things differently, lengthiness are not sticks and stones. It is hard to have a real good dialogue when you go on like you do. Being concise is easier to discuss things.

    As for disability and culture, there isn’t anything wrong. Except, I wouldn’t use culture. I’m not even sure if I’d use disability. Things might get complicated. Keep things simple, is my motto. Then again, I don’t have any say over anything at DR.

    I’m done with this post. Am out of here. all the best..

  92. handeyes
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 17:34:52

    oh Candy – thank you for clarifying that you meant it as a tip instead of a dig. I’m sorry that i misunderstood. i fall into the trap of thinking when folks are asking me to explain what I already have – instead of assuming they didnt read it the first time, i think i didnt explain it clearly enuf and try again and again. aiming for “less is more” may cure me of that habit – so ill try to employ ur tip more often.

    Looks like ur 2nd paragraph is basically saying – “whatever” re; DR guidelines and i think there is a place we are in agreement alas.

    All the best to u and thanks for stopping by. I see you.

    Peace,

    Patti

  93. spiritualwing64
    Sep 26, 2010 @ 18:17:48

    Patti,

    Sure, we can work this out about 5 agreements. By the way, my name is Mistee. =0)

    I understand your well-being as uncomfortable about “they” see “us.” For me, I am very straight-forward honest person. Let me share with you and others, too. One of our problems is that in our modern, instantaneous society we tend to jump from one thing to another. We have come to expect everything to be quick and easy. It’s difficult for us to have the patience to stick with a problem until we see a breakthrough. Picture our life as a jumble of shoestrings all tied up in knots, each shoestring a different colors. The different shoestrings represent the different elements of our life, such as your family, jobs, friends, and etc. This jumble of knots could represent many of our lives—with everything all knotted up. Each knot represents a problem, and the process of untangling those knots and straightening out those problems is going to take a bit of time and effort. It took a long time to tie all those knots, and it will take some time to straighten them all out. We will continue until, one by one, our knots are all untied.

    It may be hard, and it may take time, but if we will commit ourselves to the process of getting well, sooner or later we will see victory in our life and experience the freedom we have wanted for so long. In some things I experienced freedom in a few months or a year, but there was one area in my life that took one and half years to overcome. The important thing to remember is, no matter how long it takes, never give up, and never quit—keep at it.

    Sometimes people actually get addicted to having problems. It becomes their identity—their life. It defines everything they think, say and do. Their life seems to revolve around their problems. If you have a deep-seated and lingering disorder, you may be tempted to make that the focal point of your life. But I encourage you not to give in to that temptation. If you do, it will try to control your thinking and dominate every conversation you have. Don’t let your life be taken over by your problems.

    There are so many people who are so afraid of making a mistake that they don’t do anything. Instead, they sit around saying, “What if I’m wrong?” Well, we’re human. We’re going to make mistakes and look silly from time to time. We can be so afraid of being judged or criticized or getting laughed at. But the only thing fear does in our lives is stop our progress. We can care too much about what people think of us to the point where it totally immobilizes us and we are petrified about looking wrong. Do you know what? I think if we are more truthful and straight-forward honest people, we will actually get more respect than we do by trying to hide everything, pretending we’re perfect. I believe one of the main reasons people like to listen to me is that I tell all my junk. It helps them to relax, to relate to me, and offers them hope that if I can do some of the things I’ve done and make it, so can they. We need to stop living in fear of making mistakes, because we will make mistakes—period. God is not asking us to not make any mistakes. He’s calling us to be bold and fearless in approaching everyone, in stepping out in faith, and in trusting Him to lead us.

    By the way, I am not religious person! LOL

    P.S. Email me about 5 agreements and I have other books that we can talk about it. I love to read! =0)

  94. handeyes
    Sep 27, 2010 @ 01:57:13

    Mistee

    thanks for all u shared

    very funny re: not a religious person – well spiritual and religious often go together but not always

    i think we r kindred spirits in some ways re: what u have written

    will email u soon – right now crazy busy. if i forget – hit me.

    Peace

    Patti

  95. MIchael
    Sep 29, 2010 @ 12:08:30

    Candy aka Gina Sutton

    You should see this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGoqknpoVR8 (I am not that Michael)

    It shows that ASLRocks does have pressure on people to remove vlogs. Patti is right ASLRocks is not perfect, but they try to listen and remove vlogs. What did DeafRead and Deafvideo.TV do when employers threaten people’s jobs online? Nothing. Did they remove b/vlogs that threaten your job? I don’t think so or you wouldn’t be here complaining about people going to your employer. Did you help other Deaf people by asking Tayler to remove b/vlogs when Barb Digi or David Eberwin’s jobs were threatened? I did not see a blog or vlog from you telling Tayler that you object cyberbullying. I have seen other people made objections publicly, but you? You blame hypocrisy on others when you should be looking at your own hypocrisy. You continue to name people or organizations in your comments or blogs. As long as you name people or organizations, we will name you. Why don’t you take the first step and show people what anti-cyberbullying behaviors look like? Be a role model and we will gladly follow you, but if you don’t, why should we?

  96. handeyes
    Sep 29, 2010 @ 13:38:27

    heye michael –

    I know u are addressing Candy but im not sure if she will be back to this thread and as finlake likes to say “i am the goddess” of this blog so here are my 25 cents

    it was good of flying ace to remove that vlog from ASLrocks of his own accord. He did it for the sake of harmony. I believe i have seen folks in DVTV remove vlogs on their own accord when they have seen it was unjust or contributing adversely to the dialogue. If ASLRocks has any advantages – it may be that we have learned from what happened elsewhere but it definitely is still INCREDIBLY challenging and not easy cuz folks use and abuse cyberspace for their own purposes.

    Now u say what did DR/DVTV do when folks published vlogs/blogs threatening people’s jobs online – I can only think of one or 2 cases but i believe they did get pulled. If the threat appears in comment sections DR/DVTV has more leeway because they do not control what is in the comments but they COULD opt to unlist the v/blog if it is clear the comments r encouraging threats and attacks to folks workplace.

    Candy’s complaint (but i missed this whole time and i dont know if it happened via vlogs / blogs or not) was a person who is not in DR/DVTV did those things so i doubt DR/DVTV carried those (if they even ever were v/blogs). I believe she mentioned that someone vlogged encouraging people to boycott her workshop or something. Since boycotting is a peaceful form of resistance it is within someones first amendment right to do that and it sup to the viewer to see if the boycott is right or just or if it is a vendetta. but again i missed that whole thing and i assume based on what she shared none of that got carried via DR/DVTV

    Re: DE and Barb Digi job being threatened – i believe this gets covered a bit in Karen M. Deaf Tranquil Life blog
    http://deaftranquillife.typepad.com/blog/2010/09/different-opinions-resulting-behaviors.html
    scroll way down to the bottom
    im a bit confused by all that history as i wasnt directly involved and stuff was going up and down in nano-seconds.

    My understanding re: the 6 way im chat that someone put up to discredit some DBC folks but actually illustrated the posters own complicity where he was laughing and joining in at times. The 6 way im chat did get removed cuz folks as folks were upset that DR carried the blog – later they got reinserted unbeknown to the DR operator / editors.

    we could all be wise to use this juncture to examine our b/vlogging and commenting – do we seek and serve to disagree or are we striking out to find common ground and to LISTEN – to hear what folks r saying underneath all their words

    there is this fundamental divide – this chasm btw us i thnk

    those who love being Deaf and Natural Signed Languages
    and those who see themselves as a disability or nothing at all

    the PRO DEAF NSL folks get mighty sensitive when folks r dissing Deaf culture, the Deaf community and NSL

    the PRO Disability or just plain ole human folks get mighty sensitive when folks are dissing speech, listening devices, etc.

    I dont think anyone is gonna come out the winner in this battle.

    It is totally irksome to read some of the stuff that is rooted in falsehoods and assumptions – but i have read it on both ends of the spectrum – i have seen some extremely nutting things been said on both ends in our vicious and unending need to be right

    but for the moment im hopeful that at least a few of us have figured out that we are human and truth and love are the answer. we r still gonna disagree and rub each other the wrong ways at times but hopefully we r not gonna go ballistics

    peace

    patti

  97. Candy
    Sep 29, 2010 @ 14:04:38

    Umm what Patti experienced with Carl was veiled threat, Carl was suggesting that people contact some advisory board. That kind of behavior online should be stopped by the people that use that aggregator and Barb and Lee among others did their part and PL listened. Awesome. I made a comment not condoning it, as did Karen Mayes. Perhaps others did too, but there were some that were defending Carl. What we are seeinig this time is that there are people from different views, different hmm how do I say it? Camps? that are voicing out against that kind of behavior. What happened at DVTV, I’m not sure, I was not there. It would depend on the kind of threat and how it was said. I also know that there are too many people that jump to conclusions and misunderstand things. If that particular video is still there, point it out and I’ll give you my opinion on that. I have just recently started to follow the videos.

    Common sense here, really.

    So, if someone gets PERSONAL with someone that gets into their personal history and has to do with smearing a person, gossip, job, etc. We need to stop that. Stay on topic. It’s ok to say, I saw so and so made that video and he/she said: and discuss that issue. But, to go into that person’s PERSONAL life, no. That should be off limits.

    Anyway, I did say I was done with this post.

    I think we can always discuss these things again when and if certain videos/blogs pops up again that appears to be of that kind of nature. Bottom line, dont matter who we are, what our views are, etc. we all need to come together to stop this.

    ciao~

  98. PopeMistress
    Oct 01, 2010 @ 02:56:11

    I see the commenters talking about defend or standing up to protect one person or others. That’s interesting!

  99. handeyes
    Oct 01, 2010 @ 03:03:18

    Candy

    yep we have to stand up to lies and falsehoods and unjust attacks and threatening livelihoods, home and hearth, etc

    PopeMistress – that is the hope – that we will stand up for each other and to each other if needed – with love

    peace

    patti

  100. hmm...?
    Oct 12, 2010 @ 20:23:49

    thanks

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